Mass Effect 2 (no spoilers please)

[Sevens]

That means that ME2 is a complete product on its own. It it not a lesser product if you don't buy the DLC. The DLC has been planned carefully and only gives more content to the fans.

Yeah, right: long term plans = complete product.

A + B = A+ B. If you take away B, A is still A and complete as such. A is no lesser product without B. The actual question though is whether A is enough and whether B can be isolated.

[prodigy1998]

I don't think I lost much in starting fresh and not converting in the ME1 character. I still had 200,000 credits, 50,000 of each resource, and the bonus skill choice, and the 25% xp bonus at the start. I just lost out on a level or two of starting XP and maybe some cash and a little bit of the resources.

this is why bud...
excerpted from the mass effect wiki
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Save_File_Transfer

Mass Effect 2 → Mass Effect 2 (Existing Characters, New Characters)

After completing the game a single time (regardless of importing a Mass Effect character) all new Mass Effect 2 characters receive the following, and existing Mass Effect 2 characters that are imported from a save file get to keep their weapons and armor on top of these bonuses.

* +25% Bonus Experience - Able to reach level 30 with a new character in a single playthrough.
* +200,000 Credits
* +50,000 Iridium
* +50,000 Palladium
* +50,000 Platinum
* +50,000 Element Zero - Will not have to scan for element zero at all.
* +500 Fuel and +30 Probes - Existing Mass Effect 2 characters can carry over extra fuel and probes if the save file possesses the Extended Fuel Cells and Modular Probe Bay upgrades and both are fully stocked. The Normandy SR-2 will possess 1500/1000 fuel, and 60/30 probes following the Freedoms Progress Mission.

man i love wiki's...

[Guirec730]

Wait, so I will get all of that stuff on my Renegade from ME1 that I've never imported because on my profile I've already beaten ME2 with another character?

Bloody awesome. I can use him for an insanity run, then. Sassin' all the way.

[Guirec730]

Yeah, right: long term plans = complete product.

A + B = A+ B. If you take away B, A is still A and complete as such. A is no lesser product without B. The actual question though is whether A is enough and whether B can be isolated.

I agree. I don't feel like paying for DLC in a lot of games, but I also feel like I am missing out, because the product exists and I'm not partaking of it...and my not buying DLC isn't going to keep it from cropping up in almost every major release. The companies told us we needed it, and most of us bought into it, and now it's part of gaming for the foreseeable future, and for the most part...it sucks.

[prodigy1998]

as long as the dlc adds to the experience, and isn't a money grab, i think it's worth it...anything that makes a game i love even better without taking away something else is awesome...

[Sevens]

I agree. I don't feel like paying for DLC in a lot of games, but I also feel like I am missing out, because the product exists and I'm not partaking of it...and my not buying DLC isn't going to keep it from cropping up in almost every major release. The companies told us we needed it, and most of us bought into it, and now it's part of gaming for the foreseeable future, and for the most part...it sucks.

That's true, DLC has been established. It's almost omnipresent and marks a foothold, a doorway to other business models. There's been an erosion of resistance, and formerly frowned-upon practices will most likely become accepted. We're moving towards widespread micro-transactions and subscriptions. At the same time we're moving away from product and ownership and towards service.

[Maawdawg]

Make that over 40 hours, and I'm not counting the multiple deaths and retries awaiting you Good luck !

I got a few quests into it and it is a nice challenge. i only had one restart in the Solus mission because I got blindsided by three missile launcher vorcha when I was on the wrong side of a bunker fighting a krogan. It didn't go well.

I don't know why I thought I got a 2nd bonus power. I picked warp ammo, then went to add Reave and took it away. Then I had to switch back. Total waste of 10,000 Element Zero. Oh well.

[prodigy1998]

live u learn bud

[Null17]

I did the same thing, felt dumb after. But oh well.

I'm still waiting for a LARGE DLC, expansion style, thats worth playing. I haven't bought any ME2 DLC yet, cus I'm not sure its worth it. Any really good ones?

[prodigy1998]

just found this and lol'd

[Null17]

I love RT. Such an amazing group.

[Zakath]

Yeah, right: long term plans = complete product.

A + B = A+ B. If you take away B, A is still A and complete as such. A is no lesser product without B. The actual question though is whether A is enough and whether B can be isolated.

Then, I'll answer yes and yes.

ME2 retail is enough.
ME2 DLC can be isolated and is only a supplement to A. Nothing wrong with that. I don't see your point.

Imo, Bioware games are example within the industry as far as DLC goes.

[Sevens]

Actually, you see my point. You simply disagree (in its application).

[Purple Gryphon]

I've made several characters, and the heavy weapons never followed through. Maybe it's talking about a New Game+?

Yeah it is the new game+. I did one to get to level 30 and I had the heavy weapons.

[Wiiggin]

Yeah, right: long term plans = complete product.

A + B = A+ B. If you take away B, A is still A and complete as such. A is no lesser product without B. The actual question though is whether A is enough and whether B can be isolated.

By this same model, any sort of expansion of the universe into even multiple games or books is problematic. Why did they even bother making ME2 or the expanded universe books? They should've just included it in ME1! Such a rip-off! Whatever happened to single game IPs that contained a single coherent story and nothing more ever? Gluttony, that's what!

ME2 is a complete experience out of the box. The DLC (so far) is simply supplemental. Do you need Zaeed or Kasumi? Or the Normandy crash site? Or Overlord? No, not really. They're nice additions that simply expand the universe. Don't buy 'em? Read about the story and gameplay contributions on the wiki and get over it. You don't like DLC models? Don't buy 'em. Everyone else does and moves the industry that way? Find a new hobby. Want to experience more ME made possible by expanding DLC models? Buy them.

This Shadow Broker stuff is the first pack that to me seems integral to the overall universe and story. As long as they don't make a habit of DLCing seemingly major plot points, I don't see much of an issue. If they do start monetizing plot points like this, though, then we'll definitely have a problem.

[Zakath]

Yeah, the Harry Potter series should be a single 6000 pages brick and the LotR trilogy should be a 12hours movie too. The Hobbit and the Silmarillion books should have been included with the trilogy as well cause people who haven't read those are being left out.

[Sevens]

By this same model, any sort of expansion of the universe into even multiple games or books is problematic. Why did they even bother making ME2 or the expanded universe books? They should've just included it in ME1! Such a rip-off! Whatever happened to single game IPs that contained a single coherent story and nothing more ever? Gluttony, that's what!

ME2 is a complete experience out of the box. The DLC (so far) is simply supplemental. Do you need Zaeed or Kasumi? Or the Normandy crash site? Or Overlord? No, not really. They're nice additions that simply expand the universe. Don't buy 'em? Read about the story and gameplay contributions on the wiki and get over it. You don't like DLC models? Don't buy 'em. Everyone else does and moves the industry that way? Find a new hobby. Want to experience more ME made possible by expanding DLC models? Buy them.

This Shadow Broker stuff is the first pack that to me seems integral to the overall universe and story. As long as they don't make a habit of DLCing seemingly major plot points, I don't see much of an issue. If they do start monetizing plot points like this, though, then we'll definitely have a problem.

Hehe. What's your problem? Defining what makes a product (A) complete and what can be isolated is something that still needs to be done. Surprisingly, I'm not against sequels.

Telling me to simply accept changes, developments and processes that I don't like is very likeable. Hell, if you don't like what I'm posting, go read a book or leave the internet. Don't reply, be passive. You don't have to be around here. Plus, if they cancel your favorite TV show, don't complain about it. If they are about to cancel it, don't respond to that. Hell, don't vote. And don't complain when they don't sell your favorite food anymore but merely pictures of it. In conclusion: Shut up and vote with your wallet. Everyone does that. That's why the 1st amendment is called "the wallet one".

As for Zakath, the Harry Potter series shouldn't have been written to begin with. The Lord of the Rings series should remain in several books, if that increases the chance of one of them falling from the bookshelf and on your head. On the other hand, greater weight, greater damage, so once again this is something to carefully consider.

[INMATEofARKHAM]

Well, if its going to put me on your good side...

Telling me to simply accept changes, developments and processes that I don't like is very likeable.

Accept it.

[Wiiggin]

Telling me to simply accept changes, developments and processes that I don't like is very likeable. Hell, if you don't like what I'm posting, go read a book or leave the internet. Don't reply, be passive. You don't have to be around here. Plus, if they cancel your favorite TV show, don't complain about it. If they are about to cancel it, don't respond to that. Hell, don't vote. And don't complain when they don't sell your favorite food anymore but merely pictures of it.

Those are the logical extremes of what I was saying, and partly the reason I said anything at all.

My point is this: yes, ME2 is a complete experience. Yes, EA is attempting a money-grab with stupid DLC. But Bioware is also putting out quality expansions to the universe that are not (so far) necessary to enjoy ME2. This Shadow Broker thing is the first that ostensibly might be necessary - in this case Bioware may make it more sizable content wise, though they may not. Crying that all DLC is bad inherently is shortsighted, and saying "DLC is awesome so shut up" is immature and naive. Either extreme here is unfortunate, so I counsel not to fall into them. I don't think we've moved past the "wait and see" approach with Bioware yet; EA is clearly in for the money, so we can be pretty sure of their actions.

Is the sky falling? Maybe a little bit. But until I see a larger trend away from content-packed titles like ME2 into full microtransaction games, I'm not going to panic. I suggest you don't, either.

[Sevens]

I'm not panicking. My 'theories' and how I structure things aren't unreasonable. I'm not always basing my comments on the most likely future scenarios. But I am reacting to relatively rapid changes and to what seems to be a majority ("everyone") of people who don't even see a potential, likely problem at all. As a sidenote, sometimes it takes a (relative) extreme to balance out the opposite extreme. While we're at counseling, I would like to counsel not to fall into apathy. One might want to fix a dam even if it 'just' shows some cracks. Much like with falling books, what matters here is not whether it's the entire bookshelf coming for you (should be sky here) but whether that little bit of falling sky (or book) hits you. That analogy is a little off, I like it though.

I am against digital distribution in so far as it might not co-exist with traditional distribution and product form, which is the tip of the iceberg. Furthermore am not saying that all the (DL) Content (itself) is (necessarily) bad. And yeah, that A + B thing I came up with is largely unaffected.

[Wiiggin]

The A + B thing can really only be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, I think.

As for the rest of your post, I don't disagree with any particular point.

[Sevens]

The A + B thing can really only be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, I think.

I tend to think so, too. It's evidently quite open and supports a number of points of view. Individual cases are a good starting point in defining when a game is 'complete' and what (content) can be isolated (in one's opinion). The actual work probably starts there. The A + B thing; I find, is just a simple structure.

(...) I don't disagree with any particular point.

Hehe. Sounds 'diplomatic'.

By the way, thanks, Inmate.

[Wiiggin]

Hehe. Sounds 'diplomatic'.

"Diplomatic"? Nah, simply true.

You explained yourself well and I think I see your perspective a little clearer now. I hope the opposite is true, as well.

[Zakath]

Hehe. What's your problem? Defining what makes a product (A) complete and what can be isolated is something that still needs to be done. Surprisingly, I'm not against sequels.

Telling me to simply accept changes, developments and processes that I don't like is very likeable. Hell, if you don't like what I'm posting, go read a book or leave the internet. Don't reply, be passive. You don't have to be around here. Plus, if they cancel your favorite TV show, don't complain about it. If they are about to cancel it, don't respond to that. Hell, don't vote. And don't complain when they don't sell your favorite food anymore but merely pictures of it. In conclusion: Shut up and vote with your wallet. Everyone does that. That's why the 1st amendment is called "the wallet one".

As for Zakath, the Harry Potter series shouldn't have been written to begin with. The Lord of the Rings series should remain in several books, if that increases the chance of one of them falling from the bookshelf and on your head. On the other hand, greater weight, greater damage, so once again this is something to carefully consider.

I just hope you're following behind so you can catch the bookshelf. I don't get you. You say DLC is bad, yet you seem to agree that this is a case by case scenario. What I say from the beginning is DLC is good if well handled. Bioware had been handling their DLC correctly. So has Bethesda with Fallout 3. If your point about DLC doesn't concern ME2, then why are you posting in here ? Yes, DLC has brought new business models for developpers, so what ? It's not being pushed down your throat.

Every company in the world is always looking for new ways to improve profit margin. Theaters price has gone up like crazy (doubled in less than 10 years), they even charge an extra for 3D movies, magazines have more advertising, food prices have gone up. Games prices had been the same for a good 20 years or so. You'd expect it would catch up to them as well one day or another. If DLC allows them to keep games at 60$ and recoup their cost. Those who handle it well will benefit, their fans will also benefit from it.

[RAziel1979]

I'm not sure if this was posted already(I hope it was) but here it is again!
http://kotaku.com/5600329/im-command...ntire-universe
Just in case.