Too Human got a bad rap, sequels still possible says Dyack.

[ZIPGUN]

I WILL buy DLC or Kick in on a Kickstarter and there is a good chance I will support SK what ever the cost with in reason. We will see anything in my mind would be great. Even just a 4player co-op patch! My two cents.

[Purple Gryphon]

As for PG's post I'm going to read into this and say that he knows more than we do so that means we are definately getting good priced dlc. If PG insinuates it due to people reading it completely wrong it must be true.

Sorry if I fed any hopes of DLC. I have given up on DLC a long time ago. Plus with all this talk about the "next-gen" and SK's comments about moving on to their next gen engine I would not expect any DLC for TH. I was speaking totally theoretically, If they did DLC I would pay for it as I feel a lot of us would.

If the next-gen consoles are coming anytime in the next 3 years, as I think they will, it would be no point in restarting in this gen unless SK could put out TH2 this year with 3 coming within a 1 and a half or so. I just don't see that happening.

[FoxbaT]

Well I knew you were talking from your heart there, not from the top of your reasoning.

It´s just good have faith that something good for us fans might happen anytime soon.. it´s good to keep the dream alive anyway

Thanks for the heads-up anyways PG!

[RAziel1979]

That play as Loki DLC would've been fun! oops I said too much.


I'm kidding of course.

[OugaBooga]

hi guys, been waiting like a month before getting rights to post.
1st off, i LOVE Too Human, absolutely fantastic, so much depth, so well planned & laid out, in ways it reminds me of Blood Omen - Legacy of Kain & how SK got hosed on that title just like with epic.
I haven't finished the game yet but from what i have played so far i can't wait for the next sequel & hope there's nothing holding back it's developement some day.
I actually came to this forum to talk about Blood Omen - Legacy of Kain & how i was hoping SK got the deal in remaking it for the next gen consoles. I am happy to have come here & enjoyed yet another excellent game by SK.
cya's

[Yarrrmonger7]

Sorry if I fed any hopes of DLC. I have given up on DLC a long time ago. Plus with all this talk about the "next-gen" and SK's comments about moving on to their next gen engine I would not expect any DLC for TH. I was speaking totally theoretically, If they did DLC I would pay for it as I feel a lot of us would.

If the next-gen consoles are coming anytime in the next 3 years, as I think they will, it would be no point in restarting in this gen unless SK could put out TH2 this year with 3 coming within a 1 and a half or so. I just don't see that happening.

Lol are you really apologizing??? I meant that as a complete joke. Besides Raz, would you really want to play as Loki? I just want to stab in his heart or decapitate him.

[cap am]

Lol are you really apologizing??? I meant that as a complete joke. Besides Raz, would you really want to play as Loki? I just want to stab in his heart or decapitate him.

Getting Loki's perspective would be awesome. He is half-jotun after all. Is it just his cybernetics, or his origin also? What is his relationship with the machines. Yeah I'd play that.

[TheRallyKiller]

Getting Loki's perspective would be awesome. He is half-jotun after all. Is it just his cybernetics, or his origin also? What is his relationship with the machines. Yeah I'd play that.

He is an asgardian god, but was upgraded with "giant"-grade cybernetics and technology as a quasi experiment which gave him some of this powers to manipulate the World Tree while still being in prison. The *** hat also built Fenrir after making various treks into giant/machine territory which created a couple of unfortunate scenarios.

[cap am]

He is an asgardian god, but was upgraded with "giant"-grade cybernetics and technology as a quasi experiment which gave him some of this powers to manipulate the World Tree while still being in prison. The *** hat also built Fenrir after making various treks into giant/machine territory which created a couple of unfortunate scenarios.

I know all that. But in the mythology he is actually the offspring of odin and a giant, so maybe there is more to his history than everyone knows.

[Yarrrmonger7]

Like me chopping his head off?

[lordhering]

My hope is that if Denis decides not to continue the trilogy, for whatever reason, he will at least let us put together a kickstarter for the writing of a book that fully explains SK's spin on norse mythology.
This way we at least find out all the complex relationships started in TH and what would have happened.

[TheRallyKiller]

Kickstarter for a kickstarter?

[Jurgy]

PG, quit ignoring my question, and tell me what DD's class was that didn't make it into the game... NOW!!!

lol

[cap am]

PG, quit ignoring my question, and tell me what DD's class was that didn't make it into the game... NOW!!!

lol

Maybe in 2 weeks.

[Oryx]

If Epic is found guilty, how do you think this will effect them at E3? Will they become the bastard stepchild relegated to being seen and not heard, or will they be forefront touting the next installment of the Unreal engine?
Another thought, Will there be more publishers ready to swing the legal hammer after the verdict of this case is given? (if SK prevails)

[lordhering]

This seems as if Epic knows they are going to lose and are now trying to limit the amount of damages:

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal...275/89570/761/

I am wondering if they are trying to only get a specific type of damages so they only have to pay a maximum amount allowed in the state.

[Sevens]

If Epic is found guilty, how do you think this will effect them at E3? Will they become the bastard stepchild relegated to being seen and not heard, or will they be forefront touting the next installment of the Unreal engine?
Another thought, Will there be more publishers ready to swing the legal hammer after the verdict of this case is given? (if SK prevails)

I don't think they'll go hide.

[Purple Gryphon]

This seems as if Epic knows they are going to lose and are now trying to limit the amount of damages:

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal...275/89570/761/

I am wondering if they are trying to only get a specific type of damages so they only have to pay a maximum amount allowed in the state.

Limiting your exposure is always a good idea even if you think you are going to win. Judges and especially juries are unpredictable. No lawyer worth his degree would not try to limit damages. Trust me Epic has a great legal team. That firm is huge and internationally known they are not playing around.

It is very unlikely a full decision will come out before E3. Since the case has been split between fault and damages they may only be found guilty or innocent before E3. But either way I don't think Epic will hide but they might have a harder time licensing Unreal in the future.

As to others suing, part of Epic's strategy win or lose is to stretch the trial out as long as possible. As time passes people lose their right to sue. There are statutes of limitations that say you have to sue in a reasonable amount of time or you lose your claim. Most are 3 to 5 years so a lot of people would have needed to file a suit already. You can't just sit on the sidelines and then just in when SK wins and does all the hard work for you. Parts of the suit might have been eligible for a class action but no one else seems willing to speak out.

[Guirec730]

If Epic is found guilty, how do you think this will effect them at E3? Will they become the bastard stepchild relegated to being seen and not heard, or will they be forefront touting the next installment of the Unreal engine?
Another thought, Will there be more publishers ready to swing the legal hammer after the verdict of this case is given? (if SK prevails)

I think if there was anyone else ready to take up arms against Epic they would have by now.

If they lose, no one is going to care on the consumer end of things, and E3 is a trade show. Nothing would change.

[Thor to the Core]

i wonder how other devs feel. especially the ones that use the unreal engine. did they get could support during this time?

[Eleazar]

i wonder how other devs feel. especially the ones that use the unreal engine. did they get could support during this time?

Well I have never had to deal with their support, but from my experience UDK is a ***** to work with. It might be very powerful and flexible, but it is a pain in the ***. With that said though, the majority of game engines are a pain in the ***, we need to get some good usability people working to create a good game engine that is also powerful.

[lordhering]

I know you will not need it today but since it is traditional to offer:

Good Luck Silicon Knights!!!

[Thor to the Core]

what time does this thing start?

[FoxbaT]

Have you guys seen this?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...what-to-expect

Attorney Mark Methenitis provides an overview of next week's important trial


There have recently been quite a few things that have happened or are about to happen that seemed pretty implausible a few years ago. Duke Nukem Forever came out. Diablo III is about to see a release. Epic v. Silicon Knights is actually going to go to trial. Two of these events will happen next week, but it's this third improbable event years in the making that bears a short discussion and a quick refresher in advance of trial.

It's been almost five years since the initial suit was filed, and I first took a look at the case. It's been a long road, but the gist of the dispute is this: Epic licensed the Unreal 3 engine to Silicon Knights for Too Human. Epic was developing both the Unreal 3 Engine and Gears of War (yes, the first one) at the same time. According to Silicon Knights, Epic diverted resources from Unreal 3 development to Gears of War development, failing to live up to the licensing arrangement but also either deliberately or inadvertently sabotaging what could have been a major competing title on the Xbox360 in Too Human. Epic, of course, disputes these claims.

A lot has happened in the meantime.First there was the practically inevitable countersuit by Epic. Midway got wrangled into it. Last March, a the road was finally paved for trial. Late last year, Epic got a key expert witness for Silicon Knights dismissed.

"This kind of dispute isn't uncommon in business... Two parties sign a contract, and if the contract isn't successful, the party that is injured will likely look to recover from the other party"

Looking back at my original analysis of the case, it's surprising what has changed in terms of potential outcomes. Certainly, it's always possible that there could be some substantial precedent set or an unexpected outcome, but the case, as it has pressed forward, has become a little more of a dry factual question and a run of the mill unfair competition question from a legal standpoint. Certainly, the facts of the case present for some intrigue, and it makes for a good story, but legally, the key question is: Did Epic uphold their end of the bargain in licensing the Unreal 3 engine to Silicon Knights, or did they manipulate the arrangement to their benefit to bolster Gears of War at the expense of Silicon Knights?

This kind of dispute isn't uncommon in business, and it's not even terribly revolutionary in a software context. Two parties sign a contract, and if the contract isn't successful, the party that is injured will likely look to recover from the other party. In fact, even the question of "unjust enrichment" isn't that unusual in games these days, as we're seeing other claims of "that company took advantage of our relationship" in the social games space. These are all really questions of fact: who did what, when, and how (and sometimes why)? These kinds of fact questions will likely be the determining factor in this case, rather than questions of having a legally enforceable agreement or something of that nature.

It is interesting to see, though, that in almost five years, the practical business impacts I mentioned in my original coverage haven't played out to nearly the degree expected. The Unreal 3 Engine has been quite successful, whereas the Silicon Knights engine was just used for Too Human. Moreover, the claims here certainly didn't cause any tectonic shift in licensing to other alternative engine, as the bad press potentially could have. We have seen the Gears of War series flourish, while Too Human shrunk from a potential series to a single title with modest sales.

If anything, there are two probable results here:

1. Silicon Knights is successful, and could see a substantial influx of capital from a verdict. This might help revitalize the studio (or fund Eternal Darkness II). This would also serve as a bit of a warning to other companies working on titles while licensing their engine: Don't leverage resources in favor of your own product to the detriment of your licensees, otherwise you might face a similar claim.

2. Epic is successful, which wouldn't likely serve to change much. It might make people view Silicon Knights as trying to push Too Human's comparitive failure onto others, but the title is so far in the past as to not be a major story today. It might allow Epic to put out an "I told you so" press release, but ultimately an Epic victory makes this case a pretty substantial non-issue.

But, there's always the possibility of a surprising result. Or an unexpected ending to an appeal. The only thing that's certain is we won't know the full impact until it's over, and with appeals, that could still be quite a while.

[Guirec730]

i wonder how other devs feel. especially the ones that use the unreal engine. did they get could support during this time?

Don't know, but Bioshock turned out pretty good (and pretty).