Watchmen Movie (Possible Spoilers) [Archive]

Beyond Birthday

03-06-2009, 03:48 PM

I'm going tomorrow with a big group of like 100 from my college.

Make sure you don't get forced into the front row(s) :p

Let me know what you think. I've heard not so good things. Granted, it was from reviewers who don't always know what they're talking about, but the points they make seem valid to me.

I've seen a few positive reviews, granted they are the only reviewers I actually trust, on a subjective level.

Most of the people who are actually seeing it don't have any idea what the source material is like.

It's frustrating, to say the least

CannabisPrime

03-06-2009, 03:51 PM

Most of the people who are actually seeing it don't have any idea what the source material is like.

It's frustrating, to say the least

One review I read actually stated that the movie tries too hard to follow closely to the graphic novel. She stated she read the novel, enjoyed it, but still only gave this movie a 1.5 out of 5.

Of course, this was a local paper...

Beyond Birthday

03-06-2009, 03:54 PM

One review I read actually stated that the movie tries too hard to follow closely to the graphic novel. She stated she read the novel, enjoyed it, but still only gave this movie a 1.5 out of 5.

Of course, this was a local paper...

Was she expecting a sequel to the novel?

That's the weirdest/dumbest thing I've ever heard :p

CannabisPrime

03-06-2009, 03:57 PM

Was she expecting a sequel to the novel?

That's the weirdest/dumbest thing I've ever heard :p

Well the movie is like 2.5 - 3 hours long, and she cited some specific examples of things taken from the book and put on the big screen that just didn't work.

I'm willing to watch the movie, I've never read the graphic novel. I've heard good things about it but, I dunno, never really went out of my way to read it.

Beyond Birthday

03-06-2009, 04:00 PM

It does live up to the hype, ie one of time's top 100 novels of all time.

It just makes you think...about alot :p

I recommend it, or maybe even the motion comics

CannabisPrime

03-06-2009, 04:04 PM

It does live up to the hype, ie one of time's top 100 novels of all time.

It just makes you think...about alot :p

I recommend it, or maybe even the motion comics

I'll definitely give it a read if given the opportunity. Just can't get myself to go to a comicshop/bookstore to pick it up.

Eleazar

03-06-2009, 04:05 PM

To properlly judge this movie as a critic you shouldn't have read the graphic novel. It is just a general rule I have with movies based off of novels. If they enjoy the novel they are never going to be able to enjoy the movie to the same extent if at all. The only way to watch a movie based off a book and enjoy both the movie and the book is to watch the movie first, or do your best to forget everything you read if you read it well before the movie was announced.

2.5 to 3 hours, good I hate movies that are shorter than 2 hours. They don't have the time to really develop the characters and story if you are under 2 hours.

Eleazar

03-06-2009, 04:05 PM

I'll definitely give it a read if given the opportunity. Just can't get myself to go to a comicshop/bookstore to pick it up.

Amazon.com I got my copy for dirt cheap used in perfect condition.

drazphreak

03-06-2009, 09:47 PM

Saw it!! Loved it!!!!

PsychoTech

03-06-2009, 09:55 PM

:mad: Won't get a chance to watch it tonight. I read the Graphic Novel and it is THEE SH** . Rorschach is the man.

INMATEofARKHAM

03-07-2009, 10:03 AM

I went to an IMAX midnight showing of it... It's darn good. I do recommend reading it first as the movie has to cut out allot of stuff and it might be hard to follow some things BUT that's not to say that you cannot enjoy the movie by itself.

Just realize it has more to tell than your typical superhero movie and also remember/realize it uses allot of flashback sequences...

Also, I be honest, I could make a list of at least 5-10 things that the movie does better than the book (I can also, obviously, do it the other way too) so don't think you're wasting your time and/or money...

Lastly, I feel the need to say this... It also pushes the boundaries of an R rated movies. Like wow. The comic*/GN is violent but seeing it in motion with today's FX is eye opening. (Parents, you've been warned!)

Again, its a really good movie and, like it's source material, it will leaving you thinking upon it for a long time to come...

* I get to call it a comic because I own it in that format and have done so for numerous years... ;)

INMATEofARKHAM

03-07-2009, 10:19 AM

Figured I should toss this out here too... My local newspaper guy really loved it so here's a link to his review. (Which I found to be pretty right on.)

Link (http://www.kansascity.com/entertainment/columnists/robert_w_butler/story/1068457.html) (Note: Some people in the comments section complained about spoilers in the review but i think its pretty spoiler free [Most consist of the first ten-twenty minutes of a nearly 3 hour movie] or ever so minor.)

Oh and the paper also had a who's who for the non nerdy the same day... (Sorry no pictures in the link)

Link (http://www.kansascity.com/entertainment/movies/story/1069054.html)

batosai

03-07-2009, 11:08 AM

I believe I will wait for this one on blu-ray!:) (the special effects look to good)

Edit: ps3 1.3hdmi, fiber op, 42 in Samsung with 120fps automotion 7:1 onkyo surround:D

INMATEofARKHAM

03-07-2009, 11:11 AM

I believe I will wait for this one on blu-ray!:) (the special effects look to good)

Sheeet... Nothing at home is going to top IMAX. It's well worth the trip to one if you have one locally.

batosai

03-07-2009, 11:12 AM

Sheeet... Nothing at home is going to top IMAX. It's well worth the trip to one if you have one locally.

Read the edit;) Imax cant top that with a projection

INMATEofARKHAM

03-07-2009, 11:26 AM

Read the edit;)

You, my friend, have obviously never been to an IMAX theater...:cool:

batosai

03-07-2009, 11:33 AM

You, my friend, have obviously never been to an IMAX theater...:cool:

I did like 12 years ago, lol. It was for some animal planet crap for a field trip one year in middleschool. I will check it out I'm sure its changed alot I figure the only diff. from a theatre is the screen size.

The_Fallen

03-07-2009, 01:52 PM

Going out tonight to see it with my dad and a few friends, could anyone tell me how good it was?

Art of Stealth0

03-07-2009, 02:21 PM

movie seems interesting

laxfish76

03-07-2009, 11:42 PM

Good movie, if I say so.

There was tons of violence, though, and it showed it all. At one instance, a man's arms were cut off by a buzz saw. Gross...

Lol, I wished that Dr. Manhatten was explored more, but considering the almost 3 hour length, they would need a sequel...

Also, I found the ending was sort of rushed a little.

But, all in all, it was very good, and I am very, very compelled to read the graphic novel now.

//Lax

Lykathea

03-08-2009, 01:05 AM

Was she expecting a sequel to the novel?

That's the weirdest/dumbest thing I've ever heard :p

Not necessarily, what works well in one medium might not work as well in another. I have yet to see the film, but I have had concerns since Snyder stated that he used the graphic novel as a storyboard for the film.

Lykathea

03-08-2009, 01:08 AM

2.5 to 3 hours, good I hate movies that are shorter than 2 hours. They don't have the time to really develop the characters and story if you are under 2 hours.

This is a silly generalization. Persona (1966) is not even 90 minutes and its characters and 'story' are both extremely complex (far more than most HW stuff tbh).

Eleazar

03-08-2009, 04:18 AM

Its not silly at all. Having a complex story and characters isn't the same as developing them. I've seen movies with extremely complex story and characters, but the movie just wasn't long enough to delve deep enough and long enough to really be satisfying. Don't get me wrong I do enjoy plenty of movies that are under 2 hours, but as stand alone movies they are never as fulfilling as longer movies. They leave you wanting more in a bad way.

By the way I thought the movie was too short. It was great, but it was missing something. Kind of like Lord of the Rings, although I loved them in the theater I don't feel like I'm watching the actual movies unless I am watching the extended versions.

I'm sorry America, but sometimes movies need to be longer to be good. I've seen way too many that were cut down just to make the general populace happy (Kingdom of Heaven(thank you directors cut)) and not turn out as good.

Redenbacher09

03-08-2009, 04:38 AM

I believe I will wait for this one on blu-ray!:) (the special effects look to good)

Edit: ps3 1.3hdmi, fiber op, 42 in Samsung with 120fps automotion 7:1 onkyo surround:D

a 42 in screen has nothing on an IMAX. You might have the sound system to back it up, but compared to the experience an IMAX gives... wooo!

You're talking a screen that fills up your entire field of view, and stadium style seating (more like sitting on a wall). Bass that will make your heart skip beats. I'm really trying to go to see this one at an IMAX, but idk if I'll be able to :(.

The only thing a home theater has on an IMAX, is well, it's at home!

Eleazar

03-08-2009, 04:50 AM

a 42 in screen has nothing on an IMAX. You might have the sound system to back it up, but compared to the experience an IMAX gives... wooo!

You're talking a screen that fills up your entire field of view, and stadium style seating (more like sitting on a wall). Bass that will make your heart skip beats. I'm really trying to go to see this one at an IMAX, but idk if I'll be able to :(.

The only thing a home theater has on an IMAX, is well, it's at home!

That is the only thing that any home theater has on any theater. The movie isn't about special effects though so I don't really see a point for going to an IMAX. Especially sense most theaters today have stadium seating so you don't have to worry about a tall dude sitting in front of you.

As far as it compares to other comic book movies, V for Vendetta was better, and Dark Knight was better. Although that could change if there is an extended edition.

exkon

03-08-2009, 07:10 AM

Just watched the movie....

It was very well done. Different from the novel, but doubt it could have been done any other way.

The movie was great IMO, and was glad to see that it was pretty faithful to the novel.

INMATEofARKHAM

03-08-2009, 09:02 AM

That is the only thing that any home theater has on any theater. The movie isn't about special effects though so I don't really see a point for going to an IMAX. Especially sense most theaters today have stadium seating so you don't have to worry about a tall dude sitting in front of you.

It was 8 dollars a ticket instead of 5... So why not? :cool:

And while you are right, the movie is about the story, you are also wrong... Without the special effects the movie isn't going to be told.

Also, IMAX, at least in my area, is more than just pretty picture.... It's got about 1200 watts of sound to go along with it.

As far as it compares to other comic book movies, V for Vendetta was better, and Dark Knight was better. Although that could change if there is an extended edition.Pretty sure the extended edition is confirmed, if only for DVD release, at the moment.

I'll keep it in general but, yes, the movie is missing something that the book had... Society's absolute fear of it all ending in nuclear war. (So, yes, the book is even darker...)

PS: I too think the movie was too short...

FrozenLaughs

03-08-2009, 03:38 PM

Way too much man *** and wang.

Lykathea

03-08-2009, 05:17 PM

Its not silly at all. Having a complex story and characters isn't the same as developing them.

True, however, this notion of development applies to Persona's story and characters as well.

Anyways it seems what you are describing is the degree to which the story and characters 'satisfy' you by film's end. Many film's intend not to satisfy their viewers looking for a conclusive denouement, so assuming they all should do this (when this isn't the point of the film) is a silly generalization.

Beyond Birthday

03-08-2009, 05:24 PM

The only gripe I had was that it's inaccuracy in some parts was frustrating. Such as (MEGA HUGE SPOILERS- When Dr. Manhattan Killed Rorshach, Nite owl was never there to see it Among other things- END SPOILERS)

But the ending was far more believable, in my opinion.

laxfish76

03-08-2009, 05:41 PM

My problem was that it was too short.

I feel I should read the graphic novel to get the full "spectrum" of the story.

//Lax

Beyond Birthday

03-08-2009, 05:45 PM

You guys realise it was ~3 hours long, right?

That's thiry minutes shorter than return of the king

laxfish76

03-08-2009, 05:49 PM

You guys realise it was ~3 hours long, right?

That's thiry minutes shorter than return of the king

Yeah, but the story seemed to lack depth to me.

Maybe it was because it I want to learn more about the whole "universe" of the Watchmen, but I found there was not enough depth for me. That is why I usually like books better than movies.

Off topic, Rorschach is a psycho :\

//Lax

Beyond Birthday

03-08-2009, 05:52 PM

Dr. Manhattan stole the show, in my opinion

And that's good, since he's my favourite superhero of all time

laxfish76

03-08-2009, 05:58 PM

Dr. Manhattan stole the show, in my opinion

And that's good, since he's my favourite superhero of all time

Yeah, he was my favourite, too.

I wished more time was spent on him, he is awesome. So much conflict going on in his head, I would like to see what that guy thinks...

//Lax

hitemhigh

03-08-2009, 06:20 PM

watched it on friday at about midnight...good movie. i liked how it wasnt necesarrily over the top violence, yet it was there in the right amount. plus the stoy was very nice and i thought they did a good job of showing all the faults of the heroes and how they struggle with them....making them more human i guess

INMATEofARKHAM

03-08-2009, 11:03 PM

But the ending was far more believable, in my opinion.Speaking of the spoiler... I was surprised by this but in the good way... The that area of the GN has always left me wondering WTF. It's honestly one of the things that the movie did that was far better than the book. (IMHO)

FrozenLaughs

03-09-2009, 03:01 AM

Dr. Manhattan stole the show, in my opinion

With all that man a$$ and dangling wang, I'd have to agree.

hitemhigh

03-09-2009, 03:03 AM

yeah, he can make anything out of thing air....but not pants, his only true weakness!!

exkon

03-09-2009, 03:09 AM

I think that was the interesting part, it made him even seem more unaware of humanity around him.

Not too much for me to complain, it was a great movie and well done adaption of the graphic novel.

hitemhigh

03-09-2009, 03:27 AM

yeah.....but admit it....that was a lil too much penis/dude butt.

Hawk280

03-09-2009, 03:51 AM

You have to realize that while yes there was quite a lot of man junk in there it shows Manhattan is showing the bareness of humanity. It shows that humanity only focuses on his or her self and that is what his nudity shows.

Does that make any sense? I always get super confused when I try to explain either the GN (which IMO is better than the movie) or the movie.

exkon

03-09-2009, 03:53 AM

I was kinda surprised at first, but didn't notice it too much anymore.

INMATEofARKHAM

03-09-2009, 09:33 AM

yeah, he can make anything out of thing air....but not pants, his only true weakness!!

Others have said it but you see the progression better in the graphic novel... but the farther he is removed from his accident the less clothing he wears as he becomes losses more and more of his humanity...

Personally, I thought the way the movie was cut (and what was removed from the GN) that Rorschach stole the show and/or had a heightened importance... Not that I minded as Jackie Earle Haley did a hell of a job. (and had to endure a fair amount of makeup.)

I honestly thought the cast was well put together and did a hell of a job.:)

hitemhigh

03-09-2009, 10:55 AM

lol, guys, i understand why it was done and the meanings behind it....but i just thought it was funny....maybe i'm sick

Batou079

03-09-2009, 02:42 PM

I saw it last friday too.
I thought it was "ok". Probly just cause it wasnt what i expected (not knowing the original comics). Dr Manhattan was cool just cause of how powerful he was but his story got convoluted and tiring... IMO it took a little too much of the screentime...

I honestly liked Rorschach's character the most of all the others.
His background, story and struggles felt much more interesting and intense to me.
I wish they used more of Manhattan's screentime to explore more about Rorschach's past... they gave us little snippets about him as a kid ...(EDITED FOR ACCURACY)..., and an incident that led to his non-comprimising nature... but i would have loved to see more!!

And then, they kill him. T_T"
EDIT: oh yay, i saw it in IMAX too. that was fun.

PLOWKILL

03-09-2009, 02:44 PM

I asked my co-workers today if any of them went and watched this movie this weekend.

Every one just sat there starring at me when all of a sudden this one kid speaks up and says.....

"Ya I went and seen it, its a good movie if you like starring at a purple dudes wang for 2hrs!"

LOL...... I havnt seen it.... why cant they put some clothes on that guy.

Sw0ll_MC25

03-09-2009, 02:48 PM

Watched the movie in IMAX, saturday night.
Yes to short to develop character depth.
Yes to much man butt.

I haven't read the graphic novel yet... So I can't comment on the differences between the two.

Overall, must see. 9/10.

One last thing on IMAX, don't waste the money. Here in Las Vegas I went to the premier theater that was advertising IMAX, and it is just a marketing scheme. I know Because I have built, repaired, and serviced theaters when I was an under grad. And true IMAX thearters are rare and the screens are over 75ft. Its not IMAX if its not 75mm.

PLOWKILL

03-09-2009, 02:50 PM

I used to go to the IMAX in San Antonio TX.. I think thats a true IMAX... Been awhile since ive been back though.

FrozenLaughs

03-09-2009, 02:57 PM

Spokane, WA. has an iMax if I recall, but I'm not driving 4 hours to see a movie >.<

I wish they used more of Manhattan's screentime to explore more about Rorschach's past... they gave us little snippets about him as a kid being the original Silk Spectre's son,

no........ that wasen't Silk Spectre, she's uh, Silk Spectre's mom. Rorshach's mom was just a common whore.

Batou079

03-09-2009, 05:33 PM

Spokane, WA. has an iMax if I recall, but I'm not driving 4 hours to see a movie >.<

no........ that wasen't Silk Spectre, she's uh, Silk Spectre's mom. Rorshach's mom was just a common whore.

Uh yay ur right, idk i got them scenes mixed up.
heh, ima fix that post... lol

Beyond Birthday

03-11-2009, 01:25 AM

While I understand Why people would like Rorschach (like his "I'm not locked up in here with you, you're locked up in here with me!" line in prison) But none of the story would have happened without Dr. Manhattan, Rorschach wouldn't even have his mask! :p

I dunno, maybe I just love Jon too much, but Adrian wouldn't even have the ability to destroy those Cities without Jon being Dr. Manhattan :/

But the way they did Rorschach's death at the end was incredibly powerful, yet it was over within a simple wave of Jon's hand, if that isn't symbolic of Jon's strength I don't know what is

Eleazar

03-11-2009, 04:38 AM

That is true, but people can't relate with Jon in any way.

SpazROK

03-11-2009, 08:38 AM

Should have put a spoiler warning on this thread.

-_-

Eleazar

03-11-2009, 09:14 AM

I think when you see a thread about any kind of movie/book/game you should just assume there will be spoilers.

Beyond Birthday

03-11-2009, 11:37 AM

That is true, but people can't relate with Jon in any way.

Well, I think that's the point of his character, to give off a sort of "divinity" vibe.

I doubt anyone would be able to relate to a god-like being :p

That being said; I don't see how people can relate to Rorschach either. Sure He's human, but he's also basically a blank slate. I suppose people could relate to his sense of Justice, since he sees good and evil in black and white, and his mask is a metaphor for that.

iron

03-11-2009, 11:45 AM

I don't see how people can relate to Rorschach either.

I relate to Rorschach quite easily.

hitemhigh

03-11-2009, 01:33 PM

i dont think anyone can really relate to that on a personal level, but we all can understand his motives and reasoning.

Eleazar

03-11-2009, 02:18 PM

I don't think most people can relate to Rorschach, they just want to be like Rorschach. With that said I can relate with Rorschach, not because of his sense of Justice or becuase we have similar beliefs, but because he takes this me against the world kind of attitude. I can relate to that because I have some beliefs that mainstream America laughs at which kind of makes me feel like it is me against the world.

With that said, before I knew what Ozzy was planning I actually related to him more because he was out trying to save the world, and was seemingly trying to do it in a way that I would go about it. All that fell apart once I find out he was going to try and do it by killing millions of people.

iron

03-11-2009, 05:39 PM

All that fell apart once I find out he was going to try and do it by killing millions of people.

In his defense, it is the only way humanity would stop its infighting.

Eleazar

03-11-2009, 05:56 PM

It wasn't the only way, it was just the easiest way. As well it will inly work as long as they think Dr. Manhatten was a threat, or until they realize there is nothing they could do anyways. Peace based on lies doesn't last for very long. Really then it would only end the conflict between those who were effected. The nations that weren't "attacked" wouldn't care and would just go on fighting between themselves, possibly even attacking those nations at "peace".

iron

03-11-2009, 05:59 PM

Peace based on lies doesn't last for very long.

It would last as long as the lies endure. Which is why Rorschach had to be...removed.

Eleazar

03-11-2009, 06:03 PM

Yes, but I imagine suspicions would rise rather quickly when the man who can do single handily defeat everyone on earth in mere seconds with just a thought doesn't do anything for a few months to a year. It isn't a lie that can survive very long.

iron

03-11-2009, 06:04 PM

If your talking about Jon there, he's on Mars remember? :rolleyes:

Eleazar

03-11-2009, 06:06 PM

Yes, and people are going to start realizing things don't add up relatively quickly.

iron

03-11-2009, 06:09 PM

How? People are stupid. They will believe any lie, either because they want it to be true, or because they fear it is.

Eleazar

03-11-2009, 06:16 PM

If poeple don't have any factual evidence otherwise, but if it is blatantly obvious people aren't going to believe a lie anymore.

iron

03-11-2009, 06:57 PM

You might be surprised.

laxfish76

03-11-2009, 07:06 PM

Case in point: Too Human DLC.

:rolleyes:

I agree with Eleazar, though. The illusion would only last for so long, and would probably lead to other arguments.

//Lax

iron

03-11-2009, 07:13 PM

I never said people won't fight. People ALWAYS fight. But it would buy a time of peace. Unless Ozymandias produced another "alien" to keep the threat fresh in the people's mind.

laxfish76

03-11-2009, 07:16 PM

I never said people won't fight. People ALWAYS fight. But it would buy a time of peace. Unless Ozymandias produced another "alien" to keep the threat fresh in the people's mind.

I smell a sequel :p

//Lax

Eleazar

03-11-2009, 08:01 PM

He did kill millions so if it didn't last longer than WW2 then it wouldn't have been worth it.

TheFacelessOne

03-12-2009, 08:07 PM

The lie won't hold up. Don't forget that Rorschach's journal was left at the New Frontier newspaper's office, and his final entry revealed everything that Veidt / Ozzymandias was planning. Or his journal could end up fueling a conspiracy theory with people either believing or doubting what he wrote.

RAziel1979

03-13-2009, 04:16 PM

I just finished watching the movie, great stuff.
Do you guys think they might make a sequel? is there room for one?

Beyond Birthday

03-13-2009, 04:24 PM

Batou079

03-13-2009, 04:41 PM

I'm much like Eleazar. I can relate to Rorschach, in terms of beliefs.
Everyone liked when he said, "You people don't understand. I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me!"...

But my favorite line of his is exactly why i relate...
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon."
Although human, he still *tries* to hold true to his beliefs even in such extreme circumstances as what they had just experienced... or his knowing/impending death.

Even such an ominous, powerful, all-seeing being as Dr Manhattan compromised his values/beliefs on a regular basis. The most obvious example being his epiphany that led to his return to earth to help humanity, but then all of a sudden being ok with millions of humans being slaughtered, so that a *potential* billions be saved. Honestly, it seems utterly ridiculous to me that such a powerful being is such a flip-flop when it comes to his beliefs and values. Makes him one dangerous being... like giving a 4 year old a gun with the safety off. When they wanted it to seem like he was becoming detached from humanity, i felt they hit it on the nail.. but NOT from the intended scenes (the whole run away to Mars thing), instead it occured most to me in that moment he feels millions die "for the best".

Don't get me wrong, his powers and the special affects were friggin cool.
anyone feel the same way... or am i just weird? ;)

Beyond Birthday

03-13-2009, 04:56 PM

Even such an ominous, powerful, all-seeing being as Dr Manhattan compromised his values/beliefs on a regular basis. The most obvious example being his epiphany that led to his return to earth to help humanity, but then all of a sudden being ok with millions of humans being slaughtered, so that a *potential* billions be saved. Honestly, it seems utterly ridiculous to me that such a powerful being is such a flip-flop when it comes to his beliefs and values. Makes him one dangerous being... like giving a 4 year old a gun with the safety off. When they wanted it to seem like he was becoming detached from humanity, i felt they hit it on the nail.. but NOT from the intended scenes (the whole run away to Mars thing), instead it occured most to me in that moment he feels millions die "for the best".

He understood things to a point of apathy, he could care less what happened, that's why it was so easy for him to jump from ideal to ideal.

He ran to mars to escape humanity, and their dramatic existance, and to have the conversation with laurie (his final link to humanity) to convince him to save everyone.

Jon was basically a walking metaphor for god (from an agnostic's point of view) saying "what good is a god if he doesn't care?" or "God can basically come to the aid of anyone"

The irony of Jon's existance that he was the most powerful being on earth, but didn't belong. It begs another question: "are the people in positions of power in a truly futile struggle?"

Don't get me wrong, his powers and the special affects were friggin cool.
anyone feel the same way... or am i just weird? ;)

No, I'm glad you mentioned all of that :)

Eleazar

03-13-2009, 05:02 PM

I think Dr. Manhattan was more coming back only because of Silk Spectre than a change in beliefs towards humans. He changed his beliefs about life, but not about humans. I did think they all just kind of agreed way too easily like Ozzy was some perfet being that could never be wrong.

Batou079

03-13-2009, 06:16 PM

Well, the the reason why i think he changed his mind in regard to humanity, is his revelation that the creation of human life is the definition of a miracle that he was looking for. The thinking i got from his conversation with Laurie was that the miracle itself was a beautiful (human) woman, [Laurie] being created amongst such chaos.

I forget the exact conversation, but something along the lines of her being a miracle because she was the one cell that fought for existance and won out against all the countless others... the chaos as well as the dramatic existance that humans live in and she still emerged, was the miracle in Jon's eyes. This is what linked him back to humanity, that fact that beauty could be created from human life amongst such torrid chaos!...

well, thats my opinion of what the conversation meant.
I definitly understand his character being an ironic icon, but nonetheless.
Being an all powerful being, but having utter lack of empathy about anything is a scary thought. I mean, with those kind of values he might as well have been the evil villian that humanity was tricked into believing...

I guess i'm just bitter at the ending being so lackadaisical. As Eleazar said, all of a sudden everyone agrees with Ozzy... "oh millions died. but its for the best!". I guess i just hate the idea of everyone comprimising their values so readily. Which also is why i liked Rorschach the bestestest...yes thats a real word. :D

PLOWKILL

03-13-2009, 06:17 PM

I want to see this movie just because I want to see that wang thing....

Ive heard alot about it..... :o

Batou079

03-13-2009, 06:22 PM

I want to see this movie just because I want to see that wang thing....

Ive heard alot about it..... :o

uh oh, hope you didnt read many of these posts. lots of spoilers to be had.
including blue manhood warnings which you apparantly got the jist of... no pun intended... :p

Hawk280

03-13-2009, 06:24 PM

I think Manhattan has realized the value of life yet realizes that what Veidt did was for the best and would save countless other lives.

Also in the Graphic Novel and I'm pretty sure in the movie too, he says he is going to go to another galaxy and he might create some new life while he is there. That to me shows how he has realized that life is important and that you should cherish it. It also shows how he really is a god like figure if he can create life.

Beyond Birthday

03-13-2009, 06:32 PM

I guess i'm just bitter at the ending being so lackadaisical. As Eleazar said, all of a sudden everyone agrees with Ozzy... "oh millions died. but its for the best!". I guess i just hate the idea of everyone comprimising their values so readily. Which also is why i liked Rorschach the bestestest...yes thats a real word. :D

Well, would you prefer if they allowed everyone in those cities to die, but let the war continue?

And don't forget, after seeing Rorschach being phased out of existance by Jon, Nite Owl beat the crap out of Veidt, and basically told him: no matter how much he hates it, it's for the best.

None of them could of comprimised, but Jon would have killed them all.

Veidt forced them into a stalemate, either they accept the loses, or risk 100's of times more, just to be selfish and stand up for what they believe in.

Batou079

03-13-2009, 07:11 PM

Errr what? Everyone did die in the big city. THAT is what led to the pending "war" not happening. So no i would have prefered that millions of humans were not killed to avert a "potential" worst case scenario. In this case the whole idea of "the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few" is... kinda hard to apply.

Nite Owl telling Veidt that despite hating it, he thinks its "for the best" is the exact definition of comprimising his values. And that is what i was annoyed about, and what Rorschach refused to do... And yes, in that case if others had actually been as resolute as Rorschach then Jon may have also blinked them into dust...

In hindsight i can cheat... but this film was a retrospective on humanity's fears during the Cold War. We were scared witless that the world would nuke itself to death, but because we (USA) were wise enough NOT to take the first overt actionm millions/billions did not die. Sticking to ones values and refusing to compromise in this case paid off. The film gives us perspective on what could happen if action WAS taken to prevent war, instead of inaction.

In other words, i don't think its fair to say someone that refuses to compromise their beliefs and values is selfish. Forcing someone to accept a horrible thing, because it *might possibly* stop something worse is exactly why Bush is so hated. But i won't go any further with that line of thinking for obvious reasons...hehe

cheers

iron

03-14-2009, 04:33 AM

Was anyone else disappointed that they changed how Ozzy brought about peace? I wanted to see the alien. :(

INMATEofARKHAM

03-14-2009, 09:11 AM

Was anyone else disappointed that they changed how Ozzy brought about peace? I wanted to see the alien. :(

Very much so. The ending was very modernized for no good reason.

iron

03-14-2009, 09:13 AM

Not to mention that the other way was more believable way to bring about a lasting peace.

INMATEofARKHAM

03-14-2009, 09:21 AM

Not to mention that the other way was more believable way to bring about a lasting peace.
Yes, it was. In 1985, outside of those who created it and Jon, science would have been hard pressed to tell it was of earthy origin... aka DNA testing was just coming around. (Surprisingly, in the real world it came about in 1985...)

That said. I don't think there was/is a believable path to peace... as the book/movie (not to mention history) points that man is always looking for better ways to kill his fellow man.

iron

03-14-2009, 09:33 AM

But give him a common enemy and he will forgo his hate for himself in order to crush said enemy. An example being WWII, where you had 60-70% of the world against the rest of it. (Just don't look at what happened as soon as the common enemy was gone. ;))

exkon

03-14-2009, 10:18 AM

I was listening to this long discussion about the Watchmen with Kevin Smith and other flim "experts"

http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/12/kevin-smith-and-the-filmcast-review-watchmen-filmcast-ep-41/

They kinda fanboyish, but they know how to step back and look at the movie as a whole. The alien/Dr. M ending can be discussed at some length. But I believe that for the majority of the general audience, and the story development of movie (didn't have too much time) throwing the alien would have totally lost the general audience at that point. They didn't even have time to explain Adrien's little pet at the end.

Kevin Smith probably kinda said it best that Zack Synder was walking into a No-Win situation, make the movie too faithful and general people are just going to go "WTF", but not to make faithful to the novel and purist would probably kill him.

iron

03-14-2009, 10:20 AM

but not to make faithful to the novel and purist would probably kill him.

You got a chuckle out of me.

INMATEofARKHAM

03-14-2009, 11:55 AM

They kinda fanboyish, but they know how to step back and look at the movie as a whole. The alien/Dr. M ending can be discussed at some length. But I believe that for the majority of the general audience, and the story development of movie (didn't have too much time) throwing the alien would have totally lost the general audience at that point.

Actually, while I do agree with you totally... I'm going to be honest and say most people miss seeing its development in the GN and are left with more than a little WTF there first time through... so it wouldn't have been so bad. (That is if they had the time in the film to hint at it at all, which they did not, as they left much of the conversation with Adrien out.)

They didn't even have time to explain Adrien's little pet at the end.
Or what he would have done if the assassin hadn't killed his secretary first... :confused: (It's one of the best moments in the GN... I was sad to see it's removal.)

Kevin Smith probably kinda said it best that Zack Synder was walking into a No-Win situation, make the movie too faithful and general people are just going to go "WTF", but not to make faithful to the novel and purist would probably kill him.

Totally agree. (and please don't think my desire/wishes for small changes mean I was angry or disappointed in the movie. Not at all. In all honesty I could probably list ten things that the movie does/did better.)

exkon

03-14-2009, 12:47 PM

I know there are some small deviations from the novel, but nothing that's going to ruin the movie.

I wonder how long the Director's cut of the movie will be intersting to see what they left out.

INMATEofARKHAM

03-14-2009, 01:06 PM

I wonder how long the Director's cut of the movie will be interesting to see what they left out.From what I've hear about 3:30 hours... Though, I honestly, don't see how its going to be that 'short' if what everyone is thinking is true...

It's suspected that its going to have the "Tales of the Black Freighter" (which is the Pirate comic that's featured prominently in the comic) and "Under the Hood" (which is the autobiography that Hollis Wilson, the original Nite Owl, wrote) BUT the run time on both of those features is 64 minutes. (Their being released upon DVD/Blu Ray on March 24th.)

Also I'm pretty sure that they filmed some of scenes that shows society coming unglued as nuclear war nearly becomes a foregone conclusion... (I'll leave it spoiler free.)

Xx Tikki xX

03-18-2009, 03:09 AM

iron

03-18-2009, 04:15 AM

it was a good movie just to much blue penis...

The fact that you dwell over this fact so much shows an extreme lack of faith in your own sexuality.

Xx Tikki xX

03-18-2009, 06:42 AM

The fact that you dwell over this fact so much shows an extreme lack of faith in your own sexuality.

well i don't like seeing a penis on the cinema's screen and when it's blue it's just plain weird.

laxfish76

03-18-2009, 11:18 AM

wish he was EXPLORED more? HE WAS NAKED THE WHOLE MOVIE!!! that's enough exploration.

yes i wish they more fight scenes though, it was a good movie just to much blue penis...

Not that way...:\

//Lax

hitemhigh

03-18-2009, 01:53 PM

well i don't like seeing a penis on the cinema's screen and when it's blue it's just plain weird.

as oppsed to the regular color that you're used to right?

INMATEofARKHAM

03-18-2009, 06:07 PM

yes i wish they more fight scenes though, it was a good movie just to much blue penis...as oppsed to the regular color that you're used to right?
LOL :D

Just got back from seeing it again (2nd time) and I found it to be allot less noticeable this in the first viewing... Though it only surprised me the first time (It was edited in the trailers) and I think people are being to harsh* regarding it.

* I would say hard but I figured I would get stoned for that pun... :D

I think I liked the movie better this time around... I was less focused on seeing what was cut and simply watched this version of Watchmen. It's good (if not great) and really stands on it's own legs.

Funny story, and an honest one at that (though I wish I was only making this up) A soccer mom and her son (guessing age 8) and daughter (guessing age 10) wondered into the theater about five minutes before the movie started. Shocking me (and my wife; when I pointed it out to her) but neither of us (or anyone else in the theater) asked her if she was mad, stupid, or trying to win the 'Worse Parent of the Year' award...

Anyhow, the trailers roll... (The first clue considering they had obvious R rated movies in them) Yet they remained... First fight scene. They stay. (Though I'm hoping that soccer mom was getting a clue at this point) Then the opening credits roll... Silhouette kisses lover in celebration of the end of WWII...

And they're gone!!!

Granted, I'm rather glad that soccer mom got a clue before the scene of Kennedy getting assassinated (and actually before they showed Silhouette dead with her lover), but I think its a little sad (not to mention funny) that violence doesn't offend as much as sexuality...

ZIPGUN

03-18-2009, 06:20 PM

LOL :D

Just got back from seeing it again (2nd time) and I found it to be allot less noticeable this in the first viewing... Though it only surprised me the first time (It was edited in the trailers) and I think people are being to harsh* regarding it.

* I would say hard but I figured I would get stoned for that pun... :D

I think I liked the movie better this time around... I was less focused on seeing what was cut and simply watched this version of Watchmen. It's good (if not great) and really stands on it's own legs.

Funny story, and an honest one at that (though I wish I was only making this up) A soccer mom and her son (guessing age 8) and daughter (guessing age 10) wondered into the theater about five minutes before the movie started. Shocking me (and my wife; when I pointed it out to her) but neither of us (or anyone else in the theater) asked her if she was mad, stupid, or trying to win the 'Worse Parent of the Year' award...

Anyhow, the trailers roll... (The first clue considering they had obvious R rated movies in them) Yet they remained... First fight scene. They stay. (Though I'm hoping that soccer mom was getting a clue at this point) Then the opening credits roll... Silhouette kisses lover in celebration of the end of WWII...

And they're gone!!!

Granted, I'm rather glad that soccer mom got a clue before the scene of Kennedy getting assassinated (and actually before they showed Silhouette dead with her lover), but I think its a little sad (not to mention funny) that violence doesn't offend as much as sexuality...

Nicly put Inmate. It is a shame that sex is evil and violence is OK. I vote for sex over violence any day.

iron

03-19-2009, 11:20 AM

What about violent sex? :rolleyes:

INMATEofARKHAM

03-19-2009, 12:41 PM

What about violent sex? :rolleyes:

Good question! Unfortunately, Soccer mom was gone before the rape scene...:D

iron

03-19-2009, 12:51 PM

I'm sure that scene would have gone over well with the kids too. :D

ZIPGUN

03-19-2009, 12:57 PM

"Mom what is he going to to do to her?"

Eleazar

03-19-2009, 01:31 PM

Although I really like it, after reading some of the graphic novel I'm not sure Zack Snyder was the best choice to direct it. Maybe James McTeige would have been better, since he did such a great job with V for Vendetta.

iron

03-19-2009, 01:33 PM

I thought it was a quite good transition from comic to movie. If only Snyder had done the X-Men movies. :(

INMATEofARKHAM

03-19-2009, 01:49 PM

I thought it was a quite good transition from comic to movie. If only Snyder had done the X-Men movies. :(

Sadly, I've not read V for Vendetta so I have no way to compare but I think Snyder did a remarkable job on the impossible... Turning what everyone thought was an impossibility (putting Watchmen on the big screen with any resemblance to the source material) into reality.

Eleazar

03-19-2009, 05:43 PM

Well, in my opinion, the movie V for Vendetta was an amazingly huge improvement over the graphic novel.

INMATEofARKHAM

03-19-2009, 11:01 PM

Well, in my opinion, the movie V for Vendetta was an amazingly huge improvement over the graphic novel.A goal far easier to achieve than in the case of Watchmen... or so I assume. As i said I've not read V for Vendetta but many consider Watchmen to be the pinnacle of the genre. (Hell, they teach it in college classes.)

Xx Tikki xX

03-19-2009, 11:26 PM

as oppsed to the regular color that you're used to right?

well lets just say a blue is a color that is weird for some parts....normally blue is only shown on the body from lack of oxygen/blood...or a broken bone so it just put me off....but it did make me laugh.....

when i went to see this movie i expect a full theater not 11 people including me and my two mates...and its rated MA in Aus? is it R in the states?

Warblade

03-19-2009, 11:38 PM

What about violent sex? :rolleyes:

What about sexy violence?

Eleazar

03-20-2009, 12:35 AM

A goal far easier to achieve than in the case of Watchmen... or so I assume. As i said I've not read V for Vendetta but many consider Watchmen to be the pinnacle of the genre. (Hell, they teach it in college classes.)

I would actually say the story in Watchmen is more straight forward than V for Vendetta, neither of which I would consider to be complex stories. The only thing that would make Watchmen hard is because of how many characters there are. If people were willing to watch longer movies it wouldn't have been as hard.

Beyond Birthday

03-20-2009, 12:45 AM

I would actually say the story in Watchmen is more straight forward than V for Vendetta, neither of which I would consider to be complex stories. The only thing that would make Watchmen hard is because of how many characters there are. If people were willing to watch longer movies it wouldn't have been as hard.

I would like to add that Watchmen becomes more complicated once you try to decipher the symbolism in every character and story.

INMATEofARKHAM

03-20-2009, 09:47 AM

I would like to add that Watchmen becomes more complicated once you try to decipher the symbolism in every character and story.

Agreed.

Just how far into it are you, Eleazar? :)

Nicholbert

03-20-2009, 10:49 AM

So I haven't seen the movie yet, but I have a date with my wife to see it tomorrow night. Until then, I will dream of this console (http://i.gizmodo.com/5176686/the-watchmen-xbox-360-looks-like-a-pretty-butterfly)as it is AWESOME. If the movie is a 1/4 this awesome, I will be happy (intercasm). I know the movie is phenominal.

iron

03-20-2009, 04:15 PM

:( I want a Rorschach Xbox.

SuperJay

03-20-2009, 04:31 PM

:( I want a Rorschach Xbox.

Ooooh...

It'd be cool to just have a normal white Xbox, but have the black inkblots all over it, forming something resembling a face (or "a pretty butterfly," lol) on the top.

Quotes, tho? Probably "Never compromise" would be sweet.

Or "... You're locked up in here with me." *shivers*

iron

03-20-2009, 04:40 PM

I would prefer his face as seen in 90% of the pictures of him. "Never surrender" would be a good quote as well.

Eleazar

03-20-2009, 04:42 PM

I would like to add that Watchmen becomes more complicated once you try to decipher the symbolism in every character and story.

The characters are complex, but the story isn't very complex.

Agreed.

Just how far into it are you, Eleazar? :)

About 1/4th of the way.

iron

03-20-2009, 04:59 PM

Quotes, tho?

We do it because we are compelled.

Beyond Birthday

03-20-2009, 05:44 PM

Ooooh...

It'd be cool to just have a normal white Xbox, but have the black inkblots all over it, forming something resembling a face (or "a pretty butterfly," lol) on the top.

Quotes, tho? Probably "Never compromise" would be sweet.

Or "... You're locked up in here with me." *shivers*

Forget that!

I would want a glowing blue 360, with the open disc tray button in the shape of a hydrogen atom symbol.

If I had to choose a Dr. Manhattan quote...

It would be the "It Would be more effective to show a picture of oxygen, to a drowning man." one (I don't remember the quote exactly)

Although it is pretty long :p

iron

03-20-2009, 05:46 PM

Then when you get cancer you can blame MicroSoft! Brilliant!

Beyond Birthday

03-20-2009, 05:49 PM

See?

BB is a genius.

There's no point in denying it anymore

SuperJay

03-20-2009, 06:08 PM

I would want a glowing blue 360, with the open disc tray button in the shape of a hydrogen atom symbol.

Ooh, cool idea. Or even the power button - that could totally look like the hydrogen symbol he draws on his forehead.

For quotes: "We're all puppets... I'm just a puppet who can see the strings."

Beyond Birthday

03-20-2009, 06:10 PM

Yeah, I like that quote alot.

But I just...love the way he said that drowning man line in the movie.

He basically pwnd america

SuperJay

03-20-2009, 06:15 PM

He basically pwnd america

HA, ouch... you gotta love that. I haven't seen the film yet (this weekend!) but I'm really hoping the portrayal of the Doctor and Rorschach are true to the novel.

Beyond Birthday

03-20-2009, 06:35 PM

The major difference in the Doctor, is that he barely reacts to anything, while in the novel, you could clearly see if he was upset.

I couldn't really notice a difference in Rorschach though

INMATEofARKHAM

03-20-2009, 11:16 PM

The characters are complex, but the story isn't very complex.

About 1/4th of the way.

And you've judged it already... Why?

iron

03-20-2009, 11:25 PM

He's right. I could narrow the story down into a 2-3 sentence summery.

Lunar Solar

03-21-2009, 05:06 AM

Ive read the novel and took another look at it after I saw the movie, I was Impressed with how true they stayed to the novel improving on some points, making sacrifices on others, generally to make a coherent movie. I cant wait for it to come out on dvd, especially the directors cut wich extends it for more than an hour. By far the best adaptation to its source material. But in the end it all amounts into nothing, peace cannot be gotten in fear of something. So the smartest man is still as dumb as a doornail.

iron

03-21-2009, 05:11 AM

peace cannot be gotten in fear of something.

Did you skip the WWII era of history?

INMATEofARKHAM

03-21-2009, 08:53 AM

peace cannot be gotten in fear of something.Did you skip the WWII era of history?Or the Cold War?

iron

03-21-2009, 08:58 AM

Well the beginning of WWII, right as Hitler was gaining territory through fear/treaties. And after, when everyone was afraid to do anything due to nukes.

INMATEofARKHAM

03-21-2009, 10:52 AM

Well the beginning of WWII, right as Hitler was gaining territory through fear/treaties. And after, when everyone was afraid to do anything due to nukes.
Actually, only one nation on earth had nukes for about four years after WWII so its a different period. I will also say that Nazi Germany is a poor choice as they broke many of those treaties you mention... It also ended very bloody.

The Cold War really saw none of this and was about as peaceful as a period in human history could be... It also ended peacefully.

iron

03-21-2009, 11:58 AM

I never said the peace was lasting. :rolleyes:

Redenbacher09

03-21-2009, 12:07 PM

Unrelated, I just saw Watchmen, and I have to say, it was fantastic.

A little more graphic that I had expected :p

But awesome nonetheless. I loved how the heroes were not "super", with the exception of Dr. Manhattan of course (who was basically a god).

iron

03-21-2009, 01:09 PM

Just a question Red, have you read the novel?

SuperJay

03-22-2009, 03:40 PM

I finally went and saw it last night too. Overall, I came away happy. Yes, I've read the novel multiple and think it's a far more impressive work than the movie, but I guess I think that goes without saying.

It was a good film adaptation and I think it appeals well to people who are fans of the novel. But being an adapation, it compromises on both ends - it's not as good as a film can be, since it's bound to the novel - and it doesn't tell the story as well as the novel does. So as an adaptation, I think it succeeds.

People who aren't familiar with the novel may not enjoy it as much or may have a hard time following some parts. There's a lot of omission that would provide more context or rationale for parts of the story. (Director's cut, anyone?)

I think one of my favorite facets of the film was Jackie Earle Haley's portrayal of Rorschach. He nailed that role, IMO - something I would have thought impossible prior to seeing the movie. I liked Billy Crudup's portrayal of Dr. Manhattan, too.

I wish the movie had ended with Adrian's conversation with Dr. Manhattan, where Veidt says "It'll all work out in the end, won't it?" And Dr. Manhattan says something like "End? Nothing ever ends," and then vanishes, leaving Earth forever.