Universal Conundrum

[AKAtheMilkman]

Okay now that i'm good and drunk i wanted to know some of your thoughts on a conundrum thats been bothering me for a while.

Scientists have all pretty much accepted the theory of the Big Bang. The theory states that about 13.7 billion years ago a singularity suddenly destabilized, exploded, and sent everything that now exists out into a vast nothingness creating what we now know of as the universe.(theres more too it then that but its not really important to my post)

So since the universe is 13.7 billion years old we can only see 13.7 billion light years away. Anything farther then that and you see nothingness, since nothing was there until the universe began.

Now, part of Einstein's theory of relativity says nothing can go faster then the speed of light and we are pretty sure that we're not the center of the universe. So how is it that we can see 13.7 billion years in every direction. Unless we are the exact center of the universe( which is unlikely as we aren't even the center of are own solar system let alone our galaxy) then there has got to beyond our 13.7 billion light year bubble.

If thats the case then either the big bang theory is wrong and not everything in our universe came from the same point, or Einstein was wrong and at some period of time everything in the universe was moving faster then the speed of light.

I don't know why but that has been bugging me for a while. Also, don't think about it to long or your gonna get a headache

[batosai]

I'm not sure of the 13.7 billion years deal, but I do remember in school they said with the most powerful telescope in the world was being used to map out the universe. The only problem is they could only see and map 3% of the known universe.(this was about 8-9 years ago):)

[AKAtheMilkman]

I'm not sure of the 13.7 billion years deal, but I do remember in school they said with the most powerful telescope in the world was being used to map out the universe. The only problem is they could only see and map 3% of the known universe.(this was about 8-9 years ago):)
The science behind my it is not the problem. those are the facts as we know them now. Scientists have measured the stars farthest from us and they come up with that distance for stars and that age for the universe. My problem is that these two theories contradict each other and both theories are generally accepted to be fact. So which ones wrong?

[batosai]

Both of them are terribly wrong sorry to break it to you but,......
GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH.:D

[AKAtheMilkman]

Both of them are terribly wrong sorry to break it to you but,......
GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH.:D
oh, i forgot you were from kentucky. :p

[batosai]

Yup we love us some GOD and some KFC.:D

[AKAtheMilkman]

Yup we love us some GOD and some KFC.:D
the colonel is dead. and if there is a god then the colonel is burning in hell for destroying america one finger lickin' meal at a time

[batosai]

I tey yo hee ded, he ded!
And your right but we also got "popeye's" cause kfc is fading away.....

[AKAtheMilkman]

I tey yo hee ded, he ded!
And your right but we also got "popeye's" cause kfc is fading away.....
because our souls are all stuffed with chicken flavored hells fire

[batosai]

AS long as theres a buiscut and 2 sides I'll be fine..........

[AKAtheMilkman]

http://universeadventure.org/big_bang/images/conseq-visiblerange.jpg

[batosai]

I feel your pain Milk, I have know answers......kinda like one thats been bugging me for awhile. If the earth is round, technically most of us live on its side but it always feels like we are standing strait up, even though were standing sideways.......:confused:

[AKAtheMilkman]

I feel your pain Milk, I have know answers......kinda like one thats been bugging me for awhile. If the earth is round, technically most of us live on its side but it always feels like we are standing strait up, even though were standing sideways.......:confused:
http://www.vlatitude.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/smiley_shake.gif

[batosai]

http://www.vlatitude.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/smiley_shake.gif

Well if you asked me were I was based on how I was standing I would say I lived exactly on the NORTH POLE.;)

[KefkaForKing]

OK my understanding, which is really very shaky, is that you should envisage the universe as like a multidimensional sphere or toroid (doughnut)... rather like the world map in Final Fantasy, you walk of one edge and appear on the opposite side because they are linked.

So when you look (back in time) a long way you can in fact "see" for as old as the universe is, but no matter from where you are observing you can always see the same distance. To put it another way, there is no centre, and if you kept travelling along one vector you would eventually end up back in the same place.

I couldn't find anything on the nets to verify this, so I could be making up nonsense ;)
But this page was related and interesting...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_problem

[AKAtheMilkman]

Well if you asked me were I was based on how I was standing I would say I lived exactly on the NORTH POLE.;)
anything that you stand on will make it seem like you are straight up and down. the only thing that keeps you from not thinking your straight up and down when your lying on your back is that your body can feel the pull of gravity.

what the brain considers up and down is what you can see in the top and bottom of your eyes. you've just trained yourself to know the feel of gravity pulling down on you and sence its been that way your whole life your brain associates feeling as being towards the ground thus, down. and what is away from the feeling as up.

but if you were in space you anything you stood on would seem as if its the ground to you.

[iron]

I would say I lived exactly on the NORTH POLE.;)

So that your 23.5 degrees off of straight? :o

[AKAtheMilkman]

OK my understanding, which is really very shaky, is that you should envisage the universe as like a multidimensional sphere or toroid (doughnut)... rather like the world map in Final Fantasy, you walk of one edge and appear on the opposite side because they are linked.


hahahahahaha...What?

[AKAtheMilkman]

So that your 23.5 degrees off of straight? :o
and deep in the closet to boot

[batosai]

anything that you stand on will make it seem like you are straight up and down. the only thing that keeps you from not thinking your straight up and down when your lying on your back is that your body can feel the pull of gravity.

what the brain considers up and down is what you can see in the top and bottom of your eyes. you've just trained yourself to know the feel of gravity pulling down on you and sence its been that way your whole life your brain associates feeling as being towards the ground thus, down. and what is away from the feeling as up.

but if you were in space you anything you stood on would seem as if its the ground to you.

Then why is north up, shouldnt it be forward then?

[iron]

Ok, this is mean. I need a drink now, and my friend has my Vodka. :(

[KefkaForKing]

So the way you were thinking about, the universe is like a ball, right? And in that ball, somewhere, is a very small ball that is the earth....

But really, our universe is in three dimensions *on the surface of the ball*.... so when we look with telescopes, we don't look "through" the ball but along the surface.

[AKAtheMilkman]

Then why is north up, shouldn't it be forward then?
your just arguing semantics. the only reason north and up are used as interchangeably is because when globes where first made north was at the top, thus, up. Antarctica could have very easily been considered up if globes were made upside down

[iron]

Unless its shaped like a pool of water. With random bubbles in it, that glow.

[batosai]

your just arguing semantics. the only reason north and up are used as interchangeably is because when globes where first made north was at the top, thus, up. Antarctica could have very easily been considered up if globes were made upside down

Ok there is a house exactly on the north pole and has a window on each side, a polar bear walks by one of the windows, witch way was he heading?

Always south but its still walking forward, in any direction would be south.

[AKAtheMilkman]

So the way you were thinking about, the universe is like a ball, right? And in that ball, somewhere, is a very small ball that is the earth....

But really, our universe is in three dimensions *on the surface of the ball*.... so when we look with telescopes, we don't look "through" the ball but along the surface.
that is if your using the ball to represent the forth dimension which wouldn't actually look like a ball it would be something that we cant comprehend sence we have no consept of what the forth dimension is.

But even that would be if you were thinking that the universe curves back in on itself coming back to the same point over and over again. but all of this really still has nothing to do with the universe being bigger then 13.7 billion years but nothing is able to travel faster then the speed of light

[AKAtheMilkman]

Ok there is a house exactly on the north pole and has a window on each side, a polar bear walks by one of the windows, witch way was he heading?

Always south but its still walking forward, in any direction would be south.
i'm not even sure what your talking about now. but foward has nothing to do with orientation. forward is just the direction in front of you. any thing going any where can be considered going forward by something

[batosai]

i'm not even sure what your talking about now. but foward has nothing to do with orientation. forward is just the direction in front of you. any thing going any where can be considered going forward by something

that was the point:D

[AKAtheMilkman]

that was the point:D
then what was the problem? :p

[batosai]

when what was the problem? :p

My point was, you already have the answers but it still never makes sence, thats what I was gettin at.:D

[AKAtheMilkman]

My point was, you already have the answers but it still never makes sence, thats what I was gettin at.:D
oh


_ _ _ _ _ _ _

[batosai]

oh


_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Kinda like the "tootsie pop"......"the world will never know".

[AKAtheMilkman]

Kinda like the "tootsie pop"......"the world will never know".
i do know and i just explained it to you :p where were you at when all this happened?

[batosai]

i do know and i just explained it to you :p where were you at when all this happened?

Right here with you, lol but you still dont have an answer do you?

[AKAtheMilkman]

Right here with you, lol but you still dont have an answer do you?
What!?! ....http://www.vlatitude.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/smiley_shake.gif

[batosai]

What!?! ....http://www.vlatitude.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/smiley_shake.gif

Is your noodle still not boggling over your OP?

[AKAtheMilkman]

Is your noodle still not boggling over your OP?
nope, i'm to pilled out to care now. it'll get me about the time i pass out though. its not even bugging me any more as bad as another one that i cant even remember right now. but it'll come back to me to :(

edit: i think it has something to do with clocks

[batosai]

nope, i'm to pilled out to care now. it'll get me about the time i pass out though. its not even bugging me any more as bad as another one that i cant even remember right now. but it'll come back to me to :(

Well if you remember it please share.....for my nonsense is somewhat a slow contribution, I'll get to the point next time.....

[AKAtheMilkman]

Well if you remember it please share.....for my nonsense is somewhat a slow contribution, I'll get to the point next time.....
i'll make another thread about it tommorow

[batosai]

i'll make another thread about it tommorow

Well I still wont have any power tomarrow, but I have to work same time tomarrow as tonite, so I can use my work PC.

[Beyond Birthday]

I don't know why but that has been bugging me for a while. Also, don't think about it to long or your gonna get a headache

I just doubt the Big Bang Theory in general.

It seems like something Michael bay would come up with!

"There was....AN EXPLOSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

In other words: It's just such a lazy theory...

There has to be more to it

[AKAtheMilkman]

I just doubt the Big Bang Theory in general.

It seems like something Michael bay would come up with!

"There was....AN EXPLOSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

In other words: It's just such a lazy theory...

There has to be more to it
maybe a nazi experiment went horribly(don't they all) wrong 13 billion years ago and created an explosion that destroyed everything with in a few billion light years

[MADDGOAT]

I just figured a Jedi came up with a new force power, with disastrous results...

- The Goat

[Sylux77]

Really! i thought we were created by the spagehtti monster.

Edit: also, milkman, you are the most sophisticatedly thinking drunk on the internets. Most drunk posting is childish, *cough*iron*cough*

[MADDGOAT]

The flying, invisible one?

- The Goat

[Sylux77]

Do you know another one?

[MADDGOAT]

Maybe...

- The Goat

[Sylux77]

Strange, so dont i maybe...

[AKAtheMilkman]

Really! i thought we were created by the spagehtti monster.

Edit: also, milkman, you are the most sophisticatedly thinking drunk on the internets. Most drunk posting is childish, *cough*iron*cough*
hahahaha i've noticed. The spagehtti monster only created you if you don't believe that he created you. Pastaoharians are weird

[PLOWKILL]

Okay now that i'm good and drunk i wanted to know some of your thoughts on a conundrum thats been bothering me for a while.

Scientists have all pretty much accepted the theory of the Big Bang. The theory states that about 13.7 billion years ago a singularity suddenly destabilized, exploded, and sent everything that now exists out into a vast nothingness creating what we now know of as the universe.(theres more too it then that but its not really important to my post)

So since the universe is 13.7 billion years old we can only see 13.7 billion light years away. Anything farther then that and you see nothingness, since nothing was there until the universe began.

Now, part of Einstein's theory of relativity says nothing can go faster then the speed of light and we are pretty sure that we're not the center of the universe. So how is it that we can see 13.7 billion years in every direction. Unless we are the exact center of the universe( which is unlikely as we aren't even the center of are own solar system let alone our galaxy) then there has got to beyond our 13.7 billion light year bubble.

If thats the case then either the big bang theory is wrong and not everything in our universe came from the same point, or Einstein was wrong and at some period of time everything in the universe was moving faster then the speed of light.

I don't know why but that has been bugging me for a while. Also, don't think about it to long or your gonna get a headache

Wow..... I wish I was more like this when ive had to many beers!! Instead Im like F* the Vet Forum and Every one else that has anything to do with it!!

LOL :D

[laxfish76]

Well, I will answer every question here.

1)The earth is flat, bato.
2)Though we may not be able to see farther than 14. whatever billion light years, it is there.

Just believe in God, and all is good.

:rolleyes:

[AKAtheMilkman]

Wow..... I wish I was more like this when ive had to many beers!! Instead Im like F* the Vet Forum and Every one else that has anything to do with it!!

LOL :D
rofl

______________

[SolomonGrundy]

a few things:
There are singualrities that allow for travel that is faster than the speed of light. Einstien accepted these, as caveats to his rule. black holes are a great example. they bend the fabric of space around them which could essentially allow particle travel faster than the speed of light by engaging in a 'tesseract" which in this connotation indicates a time/space jump rather than the geometry application.

- imagine an ant crawing along a long piece of string that is pulled taught at the each end. The string is space, in this example, and the and is moving at the speed of light. Now imagine that there is slack allowed in the center of the string, and the ends are moved cloer together. With so much slack, that the ant could crawl from one side to the opposite side without traversing the slack that is 'hanging down' in the center.



2) who said we can see that far out? maybe there is nothing else past that distance

[Shikamaru07]

i think da whole univerise is pretty

[iron]

:rolleyes:

And that is the solution.

[AKAtheMilkman]

2) who said we can see that far out? maybe there is nothing else past that distance
scientists said we can see that far out. Because they have looked into teloscopes and seen that far out. if there isn't anything else out beyond that then we are at the center of the universe(which is very unlikely)

[Nigel]

Because scientists can only see ~14 bil/ly means that there is only 14 bil/ly worth of stuff to see.

Well there's yer problem. The limits of perception are equal to the perception of limits. Man cannot fully comprehend something greater than himself. It's a lot of fun to watch him try though. To believe something science says is true but has not proven requires faith in science.

Out of curiosity, what would happen if one could make a sound in vacuum? Or perhaps form a word in a void?

[EightBall]

it is because the light from 13.7 billion years ago has only recently reached us, this means that the big bang (if it happened) could have happened a theoretically infinite amount of time ago
also, on the theory of seeing other planets with life, due to the above occurence we only have a limited field of vision to look at the universe, which means so does 'planet x', if you want to test this then you and a friend stand at opposite ends of a large desert and see if you can spot each other

[Hawk280]

that is if your using the ball to represent the forth dimension which wouldn't actually look like a ball it would be something that we cant comprehend sence we have no consept of what the forth dimension is.

But even that would be if you were thinking that the universe curves back in on itself coming back to the same point over and over again. but all of this really still has nothing to do with the universe being bigger then 13.7 billion years but nothing is able to travel faster then the speed of light

I'm pretty sure that the fourth dimension is time.

I could be completely wrong though. I heard it on a tv show about this stuff. Right before my head exploded.

[AKAtheMilkman]

it is because the light from 13.7 billion years ago has only recently reached us, this means that the big bang (if it happened) could have happened a theoretically infinite amount of time ago
also, on the theory of seeing other planets with life, due to the above occurence we only have a limited field of vision to look at the universe, which means so does 'planet x', if you want to test this then you and a friend stand at opposite ends of a large desert and see if you can spot each other

If the big bang is what started the universe then it could only have happened 13.7 billion years ago. If it happened some time farther back then that, then we would be able to see farther out then 13.7 billion years. The only reason we can't is because there was nothing out there before then to shine back at us.

[Xx Tikki xX]

just a side topic since its sort of joint to this, Aliens? if so how long have they been around? have they been around since the start of the universe or what?

i believe that we will never truly get to see what the whole universe is like because by the time we get the technology to travel this far earth will be dead cause of humans.....