Time...

[Beyond Birthday]

(sorry if this is in the wrong forum, i couldn't figure out where to place it)

I was thinking...

Since light penetrates time, and light basically requires mass to exist, is my Future self existing right now? Along with my former self?

Not only that, but in t.v. shows, and fictional media, when someone becomes "cloaked" or "invisible" doesn't that mean they are basically bending light?

Would that mean they are moving faster than light, exist outside of time, and have no dimensions?

[AKAtheMilkman]

the concept of time and dimensions is a hard one.

cloaking however is not such a complicated subject.they would not have no dimensions they would simply have no dimensions that we can see. cloaking is not so much bending light as it is taking it in one side and projecting it out the other in such a precise way that it appears to be nothing blocking it.
this is not such a hard task to accomplish the trick is projecting it on all sides while also giving the appearance of depth.
i know thats not exactly the answer you were looking for but give me a minute to think about it and i'll come up with something about time for you too. i very philosophical when i'm wasted

[Ender]

Well, that image that is "invisible" because of the bending of light around the object would be in essence be delayed a fraction of a microsecond. The light would have to spend a bit more time traveling around the object, and since light travels at light speed, not faster than light speed (duh) it will be a distorted image. Of course it would be so minimal, even with relatively large objects such as trucks or vehicles like airplanes, that nothing we have but the most accurate of instruments would be able to detect it.

Now.. in the same way that light penetrates time, so does mass. I'm not sure what you were trying to get at with that one.

[AKAtheMilkman]

if time exists in a fashion that can be traveled back and forth on then yes, your future self does already exist and your past self still exists.
but they don't exist in any way that we could measure as we are stuck in a fixed progression moving down that time line.
you could say that your consciousness is merely gliding though time on a path that cant be changed.
if this was the case though nobody actually has control of anything were all just experiencing a set of events that has already been layed out.

people who don't want to believe that our fate is unchangeable argue that if you traveled forward in time then you'd merely land in one of many possible futures that could happen as events play out any number of ways.
my only problem with this is that if you went back in time would not the same theory hold true. wouldn't you land in one of many possible pasts that played out in a fashion that led you to the point in time you left from?

also, if you want to believe that there are many possible futures and pasts then you must take into account that most scientists think that there are an infinite amount of universes were you exist in an infinite amount of places.
if this is true then in that sence not only does your previous self and future self exist, you actually occupy every point in the universe in one way or another, but then there is also an equally infinite amount of universes were you do not exist at all.



i feel bad for you if you read all of this. thats the kind of sh!t i think about all day every day. all that just hit me as i was passing out drunk so if it doesn't make sence well the you go.

[Ender]

Well, I thought it was interesting to read, and I agree with it. It's all theoretical though, since we haven't yet built or taken advantage of the 'loophole' in physics that allows a theoretical time travel possible.

Maybe we're stuck in the one universe where time travel doesn't happen for one reason or another. Wouldn't that be a *****?

It would certainly be like the biggest slap in the face to exist in the one universe in the entire catalog of infinite universes, all the rest of which experience time travel. Well, that wouldn't necessarily be true. There would have to be infinite universes where time travel does not exist, because for each different possible option, there would be another universe that doesn't support time travel, with one other thing changed.

[AKAtheMilkman]

Well, that wouldn't necessarily be true. There would have to be infinite universes where time travel does not exist, because for each different possible option, there would be another universe that doesn't support time travel, with one other thing changed.
which is the same thing for us for every universe that we exist in there is one that we don't. for that matter there is an infinite amount of them were only a part of us exists, like a head or even... well i try not to think about that. but anythings possible.

[samski]

the concept of time and dimensions is a hard one.

cloaking however is not such a complicated subject.they would not have no dimensions they would simply have no dimensions that we can see. cloaking is not so much bending light as it is taking it in one side and projecting it out the other in such a precise way that it appears to be nothing blocking it.
this is not such a hard task to accomplish the trick is projecting it on all sides while also giving the appearance of depth.
i know thats not exactly the answer you were looking for but give me a minute to think about it and i'll come up with something about time for you too. i very philosophical when i'm wasted

I see what you mean, but he is asking about something else.

1. Yes and no, I think. I understand what you are saying. I think it may have the potential to exist.

2. Yes, you are right, it is talking about bending light around an object. But, it is possibly impossible (:)). Since light travels in a straight line, bending it could possibly destroy....Something.


be delayed a fraction of a microsecond.

A LOT faster :P.

samski

[AKAtheMilkman]

I see what you mean, but he is asking about something else.
i am aware that thats not exactly what he was asking for. i believe i said that in the statement :p and i answered his OP about time a few posts down from that one

1. Yes and no, I think. I understand what you are saying. I think it may have the potential to exist.
what may have the potentials to exist?

2. Yes, you are right, it is talking about bending light around an object. But, it is possibly impossible (:)). Since light travels in a straight line, bending it could possibly destroy....Something.



A LOT faster :P.

samskiit is not impossible to bend light. light does not always travel in a straight line. it is constantly being bent by the curvature of space-time. this is do to the presence of mass in our universe. this makes it possible to bend light through producing enough gravity to bend space-time itself. the limit to this is reached when space-time curves back in on itself creating a loop of limited height. when the gravitational pull gets strong enough that this happens a black hole is formed and the loop of limited height is called an event horizon.

and light travels at 186,000 miles per second if y'all were wondering.

[Beyond Birthday]

Now.. in the same way that light penetrates time, so does mass. I'm not sure what you were trying to get at with that one.

Well, if both light and mass penetrate time, It could be argued that I'm currently existing, in the future, right now.



And as for humans bending light, water can do it, except it's not as powerful as what i'm looking for...I'm looking for "breaking" light.

It would make sense to call it that, since light is still clearly visible within water, and water itself is visible

[AKAtheMilkman]

Well, if both light and mass penetrate time, It could be argued that I'm currently existing, in the future, right now.



And as for humans bending light, water can do it, except it's not as powerful as what i'm looking for...I'm looking for "breaking" light.

It would make sense to call it that, since light is still clearly visible within water, and water itself is visible
water does not bend light it angles it. light is moving in a straight line then hits water and continues moving in a straight line in a slightly different direction.

[Beyond Birthday]

I always thought light was a vibration :p

[AKAtheMilkman]

I always thought light was a vibration :p
light is a form of radiant energy that travels through space at different wavelengths. i never said that it couldn't bend it. in fact i just proved to samski that it does bend. light doen't vibrate in the sence that it moves back and forth. it vibrates in varying intensities at an incredible speed back and forth that we translate into the different wavelengths of the light spectrum.

[laxfish76]

The concept of time is an interesting one, for sure.

I do not know too much about it, but I know a minimum amount that it gets me mad when the media portrays it completely wrong.

[AKAtheMilkman]

The concept of time is an interesting one, for sure.

I do not know too much about it, but I know a minimum amount that it gets me mad when the media portrays it completely wrong.
time and space is one subject that i enjoy talking about. and all the subtopics that come along with it. i was going to go to school to be a theoretical physicist but theres not much money in that unless you've been in the game for a long time or are some kind of professor. i've got a subject that has been bugging me for some time that i'll post up later on when i have a chance to think about it long enough to write it down.

[PLOWKILL]

http://images.elfwood.com/art/a/r/artistchris/time_travel.jpg

[laxfish76]

Ive seen that before...

[PLOWKILL]

http://www.scifiscience.co.uk/img/themes/timetravel/blackholedevice.jpg

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2007/08/02/time-worm_69.jpg

[laxfish76]

I can't see what you said...

[Ender]

How exactly does a three dimensional space turn and twist on itself, to punch through itself, and end up somewhere else? That's what I would like to know. It would make the whole concept of a wormhole a bit more realistic, in my mind.

[Beyond Birthday]

How exactly does a three dimensional space turn and twist on itself, to punch through itself, and end up somewhere else? That's what I would like to know. It would make the whole concept of a wormhole a bit more realistic, in my mind.

I've watched Donnie Darko before, and thought I could end up with the answer that way :p

[AKAtheMilkman]

How exactly does a three dimensional space turn and twist on itself, to punch through itself, and end up somewhere else? That's what I would like to know. It would make the whole concept of a wormhole a bit more realistic, in my mind.
scientists think that what we perceive to be a three dimensional universe is actually just a part of a larger realm of dimensions and ours simply folds and curves through these other dimensions. its like how we precieve the world to be a flat plane but we know that its actually a three dimensional sphere. theoretically if you new were a part of space folded near another part then you could pump an insanely high amount of energy into a single point on either end you could punch a hole through to the other point creating a rift or wormhole.

[samski]

what may have the potentials to exist?

His future self.


it is not impossible to bend light. light does not always travel in a straight line. it is constantly being bent by the curvature of space-time. this is do to the presence of mass in our universe. this makes it possible to bend light through producing enough gravity to bend space-time itself. the limit to this is reached when space-time curves back in on itself creating a loop of limited height. when the gravitational pull gets strong enough that this happens a black hole is formed and the loop of limited height is called an event horizon.

I wasn't talking overall impossible, I was talking about bending light to cloak something... since it will possibly destroy whatever you are trying to cloak.


And as for humans bending light, water can do it, except it's not as powerful as what i'm looking for...I'm looking for "breaking" light.

It does not bend light, it REFRACTS it. Which is basically Slowing down light so it reflects inside a medium at a slightly different angle. Has to do with the density of the optical object.

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/889/65018453.JPG

samski

[Sylux77]

Time.....what time do you think we have? Gandalf the Gay?

LOTOR quote, slightly edited.

[Beyond Birthday]

It does not bend light, it REFRACTS it. Which is basically Slowing down light so it reflects inside a medium at a slightly different angle.


samski

I knew that >_>

That post was BB under the influence of Pain-Killers.

[Vespasian]

I was thinking...

Since light penetrates time, and light basically requires mass to exist

Where did you get the idea that light requires mass to exist? Photons have no mass whatsoever. They have energy, not mass, interestingly enough E=mc^2 doesn't apply to photons.

And about light penetrating time, again, where'd you get the idea? Somehow I doubt from a physics course.

As for invisibility cloaks, you don't need to be going faster than light to find a way around it, this guy certainly isn't going faster than light:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/invisibility-cloak-15.jpg

http://science.howstuffworks.com/invisibility-cloak.htm

Not perfect, but good enough to freak out people, hahaha. I'd love to have one of those.

[PLOWKILL]

I just came back to the past to tell every one that we do eventually understand time travel. You would be amazed at how simple it really is but due to time travel laws Im not able to explain it due to what you would call the butterfly effect.

The government does monitor it and it is allowed through many restrictions. It is limited and I guess you could call it sorta like a time share vacation issued by the government at an incredible expense.

Anyway thought it would be fun to come on here and see the old forum I used to post in. I remember TooHuman 2, and the what was it called.... the XBOX 360. Man those were the days!

Yall just wait..... I cant say to much but things change pretty fast with gameing.

Well I gotta head out and take care of what im actually here for. I also just realized this is the orginal TooHuman game forum, I thought TooHuman 2 was already out at this time. That was a fun game! Woops... gotta go!

[batosai]

Plow, you make me wonder about you sometimes. lol:D

[PLOWKILL]

I just came back to the past to tell every one that we do eventually understand time travel. You would be amazed at how simple it really is but due to time travel laws Im not able to explain it due to what you would call the butterfly effect.

The government does monitor it and it is allowed through many restrictions. It is limited and I guess you could call it sorta like a time share vacation issued by the government at an incredible expense.

Anyway thought it would be fun to come on here and see the old forum I used to post in. I remember TooHuman 2, and the what was it called.... the XBOX 360. Man those were the days!

Yall just wait..... I cant say to much but things change pretty fast with gameing.

Well I gotta head out and take care of what im actually here for. I also just realized this is the orginal TooHuman game forum, I thought TooHuman 2 was already out at this time. That was a fun game! Woops... gotta go!

Well thats a bunch of crap!! If Im going to come back to the past/present or whatever atleast bring me some lotto numbers! I see im still an A-hole in the future... Prick!

[AKAtheMilkman]

Well thats a bunch of crap!! If Im going to come back to the past/present or whatever atleast bring me some lotto numbers! I see im still an A-hole in the future... Prick!
just so your future self knows. the butterfly effect refers to when you accidentally change a very small thing that alters other things in such a way that it causes a larger event to play out differently. if you were to travel back in time then introduce time travel to those people this wouldn't be a small act. it would cause a radical shift in the entire space/time continuum. i guess you could say that this would cause a sort of timpral butterfly effect but there is a different word for that that i can't think of for the life of me right now.

[PLOWKILL]

Beats me why I used that term??? I guess Ill tell you why I said that in the future..... :cool:

[laxfish76]

just so your future self knows. the butterfly effect refers to when you accidentally change a very small thing that alters other things in such a way that it causes a larger event to play out differently. if you were to travel back in time then introduce time travel to those people this wouldn't be a small act. it would cause a radical shift in the entire space/time continuum. i guess you could say that this would cause a sort of timpral butterfly effect but there is a different word for that that i can't think of for the life of me right now.
It would not be a butterfly effect for us now, but in the future earth is but a small colony of an intergalactic community, and on that scale, it would be a butterfly effect.

Small misunderstanding. :p

[SpazROK]

Plow, that was some of the funniest sh!t I've ever read.

[Beyond Birthday]

Where did you get the idea that light requires mass to exist? Photons have no mass whatsoever. They have energy, not mass, interestingly enough E=mc^2 doesn't apply to photons.



I really have no idea.

I was on painkillers when I made this thread, and when I replied to most of the posts in it, too.

:p

[laxfish76]

I really have no idea.

I was on painkillers when I made this thread, and when I replied to most of the posts in it, too.

:p
Good to know, BB...

Still is an interesting concept, though.

[SolomonGrundy]

with regard to 'cloaking' or "preadator" type camoflage:

when we 'see' something what is really happing is light reflected from that object. Glass allows light to almost completely pass through it, which is why it is 'invisible' (and why people sometimes walk into glass doors)

with cloaking, an object has mirrors/prisms that reflect light perfectly around it, to give it a glassy appearance. the concept is pretty simple. In practice - especially for a moving object, it tends to be a little harder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloaking_device

[EightBall]

everything you just said is perfectly true if physics would just follow its own rules (yes, a lot of what we know about physics is only viable in certain situations, which can/ does/ will make chunks of einsteins theorems incorrect)