Building our own cage

[Last Thing]

I was watching the "Goblin Man of Norway" videos when a thought struck me...

Is this real?

I started thinking how easy it would be for some one to get a studio to make a "documentary" about something completely false. Really, it wouldn't be hard. But then an even scarier thought struck me...

Could the media do something like that?

In truth the media could tell the public all the news it wants, and of course we blindly agree because we have no "source material" other than what they tell us. It's entirely possible for a country to censor their media and get their entire population to believe a lie. Just imagine, and entire country believing that lie to the effect that they refuse to believe anything else.
Internet becomes meaningless, newspaper becomes meaningless, hell anything that opposes this "belief" will be ignored.

Let me throw a hypothetical situation at you. For example...
Let's say that all major news companies receive information that Hawaii is destroyed by a nuclear bomb from Japan. Now everyone in the states would instantly believe that something is wrong. They'll attempt to send people, but all the government has to do is steer them away saying it's contaminated. Of course we'd begin to see a LOT of scientists appear on the news "authenticating" the news with their "analysis" of "Ground Zero" where the bomb went off.
The only real catch would be to get all the inhabitants of Hawaii to either shut up or move. That and of course somehow censoring the Internet to not show the news from Japan. But considering the amount of anti-hackers in the government, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Now people would do two things at this point, believe it and stand behind the government in whatever decision it makes, or say it's a lie and be called a "conspiracy nut". Of course the amount of media coverage the "conspiracy nuts" get would be limited if even allowed, and the "scientists" would be able to argue against them.
In the end the nation, for the most part, believes the "lie" and it becomes "fact".

Yes this is a VERY extreme hypothetical situation, but it was the first I thought of. The real point is to think about how much we blindly believe the media. The word "fact" is a word meant to make people believe it without question. When you hear "facts" you don't usually wonder where they came from or how they became a "fact".
There are "facts" that a great deal of the American public do not know where Iraq is. The truth is I do not know EXACTLY where Iraq is. If you showed me a globe and told me to point it out I could get with-in a few countries of it, but I might not point directly at it. Is this "fact" based off of people like me?

The point of this post is to point out that we are greatly dependent on the media. We believe it usually without question. In this age of technological advancement, we use the media to be our guide. Whether it be the news, the Internet, or the newspaper, we are blindly reliant on the media.

I think that this is one of the many themes of Too Human. (Or at least it's one of the things the developers wanted us to think about.) The prime example from Too Human would be the World Serpent mission. I would explain but I think this wall of text is big enough. If anyone wants me to post my connections between the blind belief of media as fact, and Too Human, I will.

I urge you to challenge and question my ideas. (Hopefully this will turn into an interesting discussion.) But I might not respond right away since I have work. (Just FYI)

Thank you for your time.

[Guirec730]

TC, ever play Metal Gear Solid 2? It brings up many similar ideas.

But to comment on what you said, the basis of all major conspiracy is the deception of the majority. Easiest way to decieve a large number of people? Infiltrate media systems that the largest number of people believe in. Truth can be purchased.

Nothing is true unless you see it. Unless you happen to be Hod...

[PLOWKILL]

I watched that.. and started thinking it was actually a docum but soon and I do mean soon realized this is full of sh1t... That would of made a good commercial for the game though.....

[kernel_newbie]

Check out a movie called Wag the Dog. It's fictional, however the practices are not far from true.

BTW- Goblin Man is a commercial for the game. It's viral. They did a darn good job on it I must say! It had me going for a short while.

[KefkaForKing]

I like your post OP :) I had similar thoughts back when the Goblin Man first came out. As a thought experiment (hey you could even try in real life) - how easy do you think it would be to create a totally fictional article on Wikipedia that poses as fact?

The only criteria would be that you have "references". What passes for references? Links to "news" sites. That's right, if you control a news site, you could create any story you want, and make a wikipedia article. I'd love to see someone do this :)

In the days of the net, it is becoming increasingly important to not rely on a single source. Don't always use google for searches, don't go to one news site all the time. Monopoly brings with it the power to control information. This is the ironic weakness that wikipedia has brought upon itself.

Also, in your post you give the hypothetical example of a "false flag" attack, whereby a country/group of people claim that they were attacked by another party but falsified the information to start hostilities of their own accord. This is a very interesting notion and I recommend everyone to look into this. It is the subject of a lot of history and art (see similarities between reichstag fire/order 66 in star wars/9-11/Ghost in the shell 2nd GiG).

To bring it back to Too human, I think you're right that there are some threads of this notion in here. In the feasting hall when they argue about attacking Helheim, Frey (I love that guy!) is the only one who voices reservation about unprovoked hostilities - Odin ordered them to reclaim Baldur which broke the pact of the fallen, yet the other Aesir make Hel out to be the bad girl because she disbanded the pact and is supposedly going to be readying her army. So even the Aesir are under Odin's thumb :D

[TheMuffinMan99]

Last Thing, I completely agree and that is why after 9-11 I stopped watching the news. The media in America makes me sick to my stomach and the fact that most people blindly follow news networks such as CNN like sheep marching single file into the slaughterhouse is completely disturbing.I choose not to believe the documentary because it seemed biased and most of the content was a "Dramatic Recreation." The doc made me want to punch myself in the bag for watching it through to the end when I felt it was crap.

The Doc reminded me of the first time I turned to comedy central and saw
Reno 911 and spent the next 30 minutes asking myself "Are these guys for real?" until I realized I was watching comedy central.

The sheer amount of generic patriotism and pro military advertising, or the way that the media has raped president Bush's administration is deeply disturbing. I'm not saying Bush is a good or bad president but you have to admit that either way he has been demonized.

As a nation and down to our fundamental humanity we have lost our ability to think for ourselves through thieves in the guise of credible news networks. This problem probably won't go away and with time even if there are sweeping changes with the people put in charge of policing the media to make sure it is credible will decay with apathy and people in general either forgetting about it or adopting a "It's not my problem." attitude.

With the advent of the internet we have acess to billions of sources of information which is a wonderful tool. However the sheer volume of information has seen the pure and credible information being supplamented with inaccurate and misleading information growing as if it were a very agressive cancer. I feel I've beaten this horse like all the latest Star Wars products so Sermon Over and thanks for reading.

[Beyond Birthday]

Not only do the ignorant follow the media and general public without question, but it also corrupts us.

example: the story about the people who dropped off their teenager at a hospital. sure it was worth covering, but not to the extent that it caused people to lead by example, and drop their own teenagers off at that same hospital. By making something general knowledge, is NOT NOT NOTTTT the best thing, but the news crews (on their moral high horse) want ratings, thus, they report, and they report on the new parents that dropped off their teens, because of the news, but totally disregard any blame that might be linked to them, and thus the cycle of "ethics" continues


Tis the folly of man :/

[SuperJay]

Just imagine, and entire country believing that lie to the effect that they refuse to believe anything else.

Don't need to imagine it - it's been happening in countries throughout the world (including America as recently as, oh, 2000 and 2004?) for as long as humans have governed other humans.

We think that in this day in age, with all our sources of information across the globe, such a thing is impossible... which is exactly the kind of mindset that makes it very possible.

[Einherjar]

Post-World War 1 and World War 2 Germany is a scary example.

There are many, many preserved "documentaries" from the Third Reich detailing about the "inferiority" of, for example, the disabled and mentally handicapped.

And did it work? Yup. Deformed and disabled children we're willingly put up for euthanasia, and lets not forget the Holocaust.

[Last Thing]

Thanks everyone for responding.

TheMuffinMan99, you brought up a very good point about how Bush has been "demonized" by the press of this country. It made me realize how very split our country is. When the election took place there was a LOT of controversy over who was elected. (How many people remember the Greatly exaggerated Florida vote tally?) Right off the bat the media states that, "Bush should not have been elected."
That lead to instant criticism of anything he did. Then comes 9-11, a sorrowful day in US history paramount to Pearl Harbor. The nation forgets it's bickering and came together in a way it hasn't seen for a VERY VERY long time. But after a while the media slowly begins to critique Bush again. How it's his administration's fault that 9-11 happened in the first place.

We were finally united as a country. We were at a point where people in America actually cared about each other. Then the media tears it all apart, and we find ourselves in the situation we are in. Now about 75% (remember that 57% of statistics are made up on the spot =]) of the country does not stand by what the president says or does. A vast majority hate the war, even though they agreed with it in the beginning.

Sorry for bringing in politics, but it was a very good example of how destructive the media can be. I also wanted to thank Eiherjar for reminding me about Hitler's use of the media during World War 2. (Definitely something to do some research on if you don't already know.)

One thing I am afraid of is if something were to happen and be reported that is blatantly a lie, will it be questioned and attacked as being so? Or will the media simply say, "Oops! We didn't have credible sources." and have all the blame just go to someone else. The media truly has too much power, but how can we take that power away? Is the only thing that we are capable of is trusting that our Government is keeping a "watchful eye" over it to make sure lies are not recorded as "facts"?

I am constantly reminded of V for Vendetta, a great movie in my opinion, and if perhaps it will take an extremist to get the public to think for themselves.

Again thank you everyone for reading and responding.

[TheMuffinMan99]

Last Thing I actually meant to mention V for Vendetta in my last post but got distracted. There is a fine line between freedom fighter and terrorist.

In WW1 and 2 the Germans used the prophesies of Nostrodomas as propaganda to add credability to the war. Strangely so did the US firing back with it's spin on the prophesy.

The media is a powerful tool and used properly it is a very good thing. It's ultimately up to the people of the country to regulate the credability of the media because there comes a point where you can't trust the government to do it.

[TheMuffinMan99]

Not only do the ignorant follow the media and general public without question, but it also corrupts us.

example: the story about the people who dropped off their teenager at a hospital. sure it was worth covering, but not to the extent that it caused people to lead by example, and drop their own teenagers off at that same hospital. By making something general knowledge, is NOT NOT NOTTTT the best thing, but the news crews (on their moral high horse) want ratings, thus, they report, and they report on the new parents that dropped off their teens, because of the news, but totally disregard any blame that might be linked to them, and thus the cycle of "ethics" continues


Tis the folly of man :/

Since 9-11 I think the media definitely took a turn for the worse, everytime I look at the news with even a passing glance they are talking about how bad the economy is or have some douche up on there talking about how the Bush presidency is failing and so forth.

Constant reports and polls about should America go to war with Iran or North Korea, pretty much wherever the feel like spreading fear this week. NEVER trust Wikipedia, not credible most of the time.

[Beyond Birthday]

Since 9-11 I think the media definitely took a turn for the worse, everytime I look at the news with even a passing glance they are talking about how bad the economy is or have some douche up on there talking about how the Bush presidency is failing and so forth.

Constant reports and polls about should America go to war with Iran or North Korea, pretty much wherever the feel like spreading fear this week. NEVER trust Wikipedia, not credible most of the time.

Not much i can say, other than; i agree =D

[TheMuffinMan99]

Not much i can say, other than; i agree =D

I just saw a trailer for a movie about pres Bush which is disgusting. I thought they already had one out made by Michael Moore (The fat PoS) called Farenheit 9-11.

I could never finish F 9-11 because of the tone of Michael Moore and all he did is ***** oh I lost my friend and its the president's fault waa waa waa. If anyone in the history of the media needed to have the whole of America form a mob and force feed them their own excrement until they die my choice would be Michael Moore (next in line is Dr Phil but that's a bit off topic).

The really disturbing thing is that I just watched the same commercial for that W movie three times since I started writing this :(

[f00kingpwnage]

well to be honest i skimmed through most of the comments but iv always questioned authority and the whys and hows, and yes it has done more bad than good scince i was a small lil **** i was questioning why i had to do certain things and still do to this day i have been told i have an 'answer for evrything' almost a million times or more.

and well i think of the possible outcomes of each situation in question but, i dont have the answer just my thoughts.

so anyway to get onto topic i know i will probably get 'loled' at but well the whole world as it as at the moment is a lie.the media is government controlled therefore evrything we watch is what they want us to watch.even in the early times of the media they had already figured out we are sheep and they are our shepards.there were experiments in the early 60's i think using high freaquencys to subdue the brain and put people in a zombie like state.this 'idea' was suposedly 'scrapped'.

now friends and family lets get onto religion.if you dont want to read this part skip it.
so what do we know about religion? well it is controlled like a seperate species 'if your from this religion dont **** with that religion' and so on . as ive seen from numerous GW press meeting apparently 'GOD' wants to defeat this evil terrorist 'threat'(note terrorists who have no kevlar and just about 20 -30 year old weapons are wining a 'war' and might actually make it into america on a magical carpet and kill you all.)
now organised religion came into full swing hundreds of years ago and what joyess ages have we seen? well entire civilisations have been reduced to nothing by christians and priests entire peoples historys diluted in the sewer that is the bible , i am not saying that religion in all is a bad thing but people rely to much on the people at the head of theyr religion, we do not need to go to a building and be told how to worship whichever diety it is you worship i believe your religion is what you make it and is inside of you and therefore no one can tell you how to live it.
but if you believe that you are considered a heratic becuase the people you are refusing to listen to are the 'men' of 'god' ..they claim god speaks to them.. well i supose they can phone him with all the money they have.the worlds richest organisations are the religions because they are taxfree therefore any funds theyr givin , it's theyrs no strings attached.moving on i do not believe any one single religion is right, and i think once the masses get it through theyr heads that they are being controlled by false prophets the world will be a better place .also religion is one of the many reasons we start wars.

anywho onto iraq well what big **** up that was and is.i dont see how 2 airliners and numerous demolition explosives and thermate cuased america to fight the very threatning terrorists about 15thousand miles away who have next to no milatary training other than 'shoot shoot die' we all know the main reason is oil,money and well money but it still pisses me off imensley that the government will never come out and admit they did it. i hope there is an investigation into the war when the new president comes into office . but the world is corupt so we'll never really squash this ****.. ah **** it ive got better things to do than argue on the internet about conspiracys and such

[EightBall]

reading this thread i just want to say a few things
1) the media is a very good thing, like the internet, poeple just happen to use it differently than it was made to be used for (for better or for worse), the people are the problem here
2) take everything with a pinch of salt, question anything and everything that doesnt make sense or seems 'out-of-place', form your own opinions
3) the iraq war was a mistake, even when it is 'over' the international tension will create worse problems in the future (than it would have been anyway, i mean)

[f00kingpwnage]

iraq is just like vietnam its for recources thats all...

[Einherjar]

Since when was Vietnam ever about resources? It was about fighting communism. USA and Russia both interfered because the other one was backing up the opposite faction in the domestic Vietnam conflict.

[f00kingpwnage]

money iis a resource, the bank has all the money they lend it to the government to buy weapons and such then after they loan 'X' ammount they recall all the money through tax payers..

[Einherjar]

money iis a resource, the bank has all the money they lend it to the government to buy weapons and such then after they loan 'X' ammount they recall all the money through tax payers..

I still haven't seen you prove how the Vietnam war was about resources... it wasn't about money, neither.

[f00kingpwnage]

well did vietnam ever invade america? did it ever do **** .. no they would have never been able to amass an army strong and clever enough to take on america knowing that they had back up.. i just dont see the point in iraq and vietnam the only simalarties to me are they were both wars not meant to be won and the government got a huge payday .. obviously not publicly stated

[Dash Panther]

War is almost always about money and resources.

Vietnam has natural resources, such as rubber, tin and oil. If it didn't have any resources, no one would want to take it over.

It was colonized by the French and Japanese for those resources.

The Chinese and the Soviets set up a puppet government in Vietnam for those resources.

When that started happening, the US got involved. "Fighting communism" was just a euphemism for "not letting the enemy have those resources" and "having the American industrial-military complex sell weapons and equipment to make a lot of profit off the money of taxpayers and the blood of drafted soldiers."

In the end, the real winners of wars are the arms dealers.

Iraq is sitting on the second largest deposit of oil. If it wasn't, no one would care about it. The oil gives Iraq strategic value that Russia, China, and the US covet.

The US INVADED Iraq. They could invade Cuba which is off its doorstep, but for what? Cigars? (Cuba does have metal and potentially some oil, but it's small potatoes compared to Iraq.) Also, there's no BS connection between Castro and Bin Laden, or BS report of nuclear/bio/chem weapons in Cuba.

Any connection between Bin Laden and Iraq was based on what some captured terrorist was making up. He wanted his CIA interrogators to stop the waterboarding, so he just told them what he thought they wanted to hear.

[PLOWKILL]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/kni/lowres/knin338l.jpg

[Einherjar]

well did vietnam ever invade america? did it ever do **** .. no they would have never been able to amass an army strong and clever enough to take on america knowing that they had back up.. i just dont see the point in iraq and vietnam the only simalarties to me are they were both wars not meant to be won and the government got a huge payday .. obviously not publicly stated

I'm sorry, you've lost me. You're just rambling now, make no sense whatsoever to your previous statements or our discussion.. When did we start talking about Vietnam invading? Wha..?

[f00kingpwnage]

well technicly in war the us allways tell the people that they are 'protecting' us soil from the enemy but how would vietnam ever get a milatary force into america..even if they did it would never be large enough my point is america tells the people they are protecting theyr homes and america but in actual fact america is the one invading and raping the other country,theyr the real enemy becuase these country will take decades to get anywhere i dunno im just saying that like if you look at it in reality in war america has one of the largest armies and they have the capability to invade other countrys claiming theyr protecting america .but how can vietnam iraq whoever fight them on us soil?.. lemme get sober n ill make more scense n sorry about the other posts being high n arguing politicly isnt good lol sorryy

[TheMuffinMan99]

well technicly in war the us allways tell the people that they are 'protecting' us soil from the enemy but how would vietnam ever get a milatary force into america..even if they did it would never be large enough my point is america tells the people they are protecting theyr homes and america but in actual fact america is the one invading and raping the other country,theyr the real enemy becuase these country will take decades to get anywhere i dunno im just saying that like if you look at it in reality in war america has one of the largest armies and they have the capability to invade other countrys claiming theyr protecting america .but how can vietnam iraq whoever fight them on us soil?.. lemme get sober n ill make more scense n sorry about the other posts being high n arguing politicly isnt good lol sorryy

way to ruin your own case with that last statement. :p

[f00kingpwnage]

meh ill keep toking its the only way i can finish paintings lol..but yeah anywho my whole veiw on the vietnam war is it was pointless politicly speaking. but it had a point that being money there was no threat from vietnam and the us would no way in hell be taken over and veitnaminised same with the falklands war how the fu.ck can you claim a country to be yours when its plus 10 thousand miles away.. argentina had a right to it as it was closet anyway whatever were not gnna have the power of the people to fix this **** n were all greedy take out one guy n we get another in his place so whatever...WHATEVER!! this is my united states of WHATEVER.dndndnnnananan

[f00kingpwnage]

f.uck just have this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3nDQFickqY

[TheMuffinMan99]

I was just poking fun at the fact you totally discredited yourself in the same post as the arguement. It was similar to being in an interview with a reporter telling you you have one of the best written speeches they have ever heard and you respond with "Thanks I actually found it on a bubble gum wrapper"

[Last Thing]

Well, I think we've gotten a little off topic. Yes wars are a great result of what the media can do to sway a country into, or against a war.

I did want to thank EightBall for his 3 points of wisdom. I couldn't agree with you more.
It brings up something very interesting that I wasn't exactly supporting of, but the truth is that the media is a good thing.
The ability to have knowledge at the end of your finger tips is awe inspiring. Yes, "facts" can be biased and altered, but they teach us who we are. People are not required to acknowledge these "facts" as Truth, and most people don't. We had a great example of this in this very thread. (Thank you F00kinpwnage and Einherjar for both of your opinions.)

Arguments erupt because people are using their ability to reason and find their own Truth. The media can spit out as many "facts" as it wants, but people will generally find the one that they believe is right and stick with it. They may even argue that their "fact" is the only True "fact". But that is their choice.

I will agree that the media is a good thing, but I also would like to point out that it is receiving too much power. Our sole dependency on it is a cause for concern. As EightBall said,
"2) take everything with a pinch of salt, question anything and everything that doesnt make sense or seems 'out-of-place', form your own opinions"
The problem is that not everyone notices things that are out of place. Here's a test for you...

Look at post 23 by PLOWKILL, did you notice that the mouse trap is backwards? Most people know how a mouse trap works, and they'd know that if a mouse grabs the cheese from that side, the bar would go right over it, instead of breaking it's neck. ( I don't mean to criticize, I merely mean to prove the point that things that should rise our suspicion, sometimes don't.)

Now I'm betting most of you didn't notice, or you know that most people wouldn't. Take that number of people, and exponentially increase it as if the comic were a news story. Now instead of a few people, we have millions. If this amount were left unchecked, support for this "fact" would grow until it had enough support to turn into a "law". Now if a person were to question it, he would be declared wrong, instead of insightful.

The media is a great thing, but it has become so powerful that if it were manipulated by the wrong people, it could be a very bad thing.

Thanks again everyone for responding.

[f00kingpwnage]

I was just poking fun at the fact you totally discredited yourself in the same post as the arguement. It was similar to being in an interview with a reporter telling you you have one of the best written speeches they have ever heard and you respond with "Thanks I actually found it on a bubble gum wrapper"

lol thanks i think.. i has me alot of political views and technicly ive figured out a way of disapearing without much hastle;)

[bansin]

With the advent of the internet we have acess to billions of sources of information which is a wonderful tool. However the sheer volume of information has seen the pure and credible information being supplamented with inaccurate and misleading information growing as if it were a very agressive cancer. I feel I've beaten this horse like all the latest Star Wars products so Sermon Over and thanks for reading.

Just try looking up scientific facts on the internet. You are still unable to hit the first site and take it as is. You have to check and cross-check just to make sure that their is a semblance of accuracy in the first site.

The internet is like wikipedia...anyone can say whatever they want about anything.

[TheMuffinMan99]

Just try looking up scientific facts on the internet. You are still unable to hit the first site and take it as is. You have to check and cross-check just to make sure that their is a semblance of accuracy in the first site.

The internet is like wikipedia...anyone can say whatever they want about anything.

I agree with you completely I rarely trust anything on the internet (Such as the female night elves on WoW, we know you're a dude living one of your fantasies becuse you're a lonely lonely man living in your mom's basement, you're a perv :p)