cyber or Human?

[Falcon]

BE Advice... I have been considering going cyber mostly for the extra survivability of the extra armor.. but I am going middle path so I think the increased attack speed may be beneficial as well as human and the extra heal from the combo level. What does everyone think?

[Klez]

I'm looking for some similar info, though I would recommend Cybernetic to give you access to cannons. I have a pretty sweet Epic BE cannon that deals some serious damage at a distance.

[jar]

I personally went Human. Basically because of the reduced cost of using your combo points. Cheaper heals = good times :)

[Klez]

Hmm, I should try that with another BE. To be honest, the BE was my first character and I really wasn't too sure on what I should do. Next time though I'll try Human.

Cheers,

[too human]

I went Cyber but I do really regret it
My main reason for Cyber was cannons

Seeing that its not that much better than rifle , I dont see any other skill that cyber has which is better or even equal to Humans with one more combo point.

having an extra heal or two ruiners is a life saver in this game.
Having 10% extra armor will not save you from certain death..

[jar]

You got it! My thinking was this. If you treat the Bio as a healer in any other game, they need magic to be useful. Magic in Too Human = Combo. Find a way to get combo ASAP, and your golden. And hell, if you can get the costs of heals down, your laughing.

[rumble83]

HUMAN all the way. Cannons are overrated. I've found rifles with better damage output at lvl 50. Plus, human offers more customization of your armor and weapons, which makes those random runes extremely useful.

[Pale Hors3]

Yeah I originally made a cyber bio to try out the cannons. Yesterday decided to reroll it as a human bio and found that not only is the cheaper heals amazingly nice but I really like the human ruiner. The valkyrie that kills enemies and heals you. It is a amazing life saver.

[CEAF]

Human without a doubt. You want to be able to use your heal and life leech ruiner as much as possible. Also L4 combo level significantly ups your DPS/melee speed which helps significantly when clearing out trash.

[Falcon]

ok... ya cannons are overrated I am wondering if they plan to make them better in future games.. because right now they suck.

[K1RB]

A Cyber BE can start putting down a lot of melee damage. The first skill on the cyber tree that increases damage based on your combo meter can really increase your damage. I'm at over 3000 melee damage after the -25% gimp and the +X% increased damage from the cyber tree helps negate the gimp and helps get me back up to over 4000 melee dmg once my combo rises. The +20% slide damage is also very nice as I can ping pong around like a beserker. Throw on the damage battle cry and you are a serious force to be reckoned with in melee. I personally like the increased proc rate as well. Part of my strategy is using my Necrotize proc to my advantage. It all depends on your playstyle. If you need to be able to heal more than once in every 2 minutes, I'd say go human so you can get your combo up easier. I personally do fine with the spider heal and health orbs from the mobs constantly dieing by my hand.

[EMTheory]

One thing nobody has mentioned yet is Human's reduced spider cooldown timer. This us HUGE if you go middle path and use the shield spider. I personally find shield spider more useful than heals since it does not require combo and can be used quite often. If you never take damage then no need to worry about heals.

[Falcon]

ya and i am going middle..

[Pale Hors3]

Yeah the reduced recharge time works great for right tree too for the reduced spider time. Since that spider is a heal though I am middle tree.

[LingeringDrama]

One thing nobody has mentioned yet is Human's reduced spider cooldown timer. This us HUGE if you go middle path and use the shield spider. I personally find shield spider more useful than heals since it does not require combo and can be used quite often. If you never take damage then no need to worry about heals.

EMTheory could you please post your skill point breakdown. I like your idea with your human BE and would like to see how you vary your points between the combos reduction and the spider cool down 8) Thx.

[EMTheory]

Will do when I get home in a couple hours.

Also going this route +spider duration items are a huge help. I believe I'm at about +20% duration. Without ever timing it I would guess spider lasts ~25-30 seconds...basically plenty of time to take down a dark elf spider solo without worrying about any of the other mobs in the area or what my co-op partner is doing, since so few seem interested in really playing tactically as a team.

Edit: here is my spec.


6 5 2
8 10 0 6
0 10 0 0 6
0 6 0 0 6
0 8 0 0 10
2 10


See the BioE spec thread for explanation. Hope that helps!

[samuraiwahoo]

I myself prefer the Cyber alignment for the middle path. This is what my build looks like.
---08---
10-08-00
00-10-00
00-10-00
00-08-00
---01---

--02--
--06--
00--06
00--06
00--10
--10--

I maxed out both the Spider (invincibility) and Everflowing Source (50% increase to spider duration). I have capped out my Spider Cool down along with this with open rune slots in the armor. In my experience, I find it is more useful to have invicibility longer. Oh yeah, I have also capped Spider duration through runes. Maxing out the end skill for the armor increase has been a blessing and I do not know what I would do with out it.

Rifles or Cannons, well that is up to you. I love both, but I find with my build that rifles are more useful. I use a lot of grenades and the quick reload is a must for me. I am not one to prioritize melee damage because I have found that taking more damage is better than dishing it out. That is just my playstyle. It is really up to you. I find having the invicibility a lot longer is more important. Especially battling many status effecting trolls and Necros. I pop invincibility and I can bring down a couple of nasty trolls quickly while ignoring the little guys. I do the same with Necros, I focus only on them when I pop the Spider.

I geared my playstyle around being a Meditank. I can do enough damage to kill anything quick enough and I have the lasting ability of my spider to turn a hairy situation to my favor. Running between bouts gives me plenty of time to recharge the Spider to a point to where I need it again.

I think a Human is geared more towards the right path. Recharge your spider for more heals and an xtra combo level for your mighty battlecry. Speed and the ability to dish out quite a bit of damage. The battlecry on the right side is an absolute beast for you and your partner and can make a good argument for a career selection. The cyber on the other hand, the right path is much too dependent on the combo meter and IMO, it lends itself to the Human alignment.

[TheFacelessOne]

The bioengineer was my first choice. I went cybernetic, right path initially but after I maxed out I reset my stats and went down the middle and I'm liking that more.

[Lymph 03]

Cybernetic all the way!

+More Damage
+Longer Spider Time
+Higher Proc Rate
+More Armor
+Cannon

I though about human, as much as cheaper heals is a bonus and the extra combo level would be helpfull without argument I personally saw doing more damage and having the spider out for longer to be more suited to my play style.

Both Human or Cyber Left or Right Paths, its all personal and each has its own positives and negatives.


If I went human i'd get faster attack speed which is NOT the same as more damage, yes you swing faster so your standing DPS is higher but when you have to bounce about to avoid getting hit (a big part of the game) its all about those massive one hitters which is Cybernetic all over.

The shorter Spider recharge also seemed nice at the time BUT, I thought having the spider out for 50% longer was a better option. That way if the battle went a bit longer then I thought i'll have extra time to deal with the enemy. (I plan on only having the spider kill at 5/10 since and the increased spider duration at 10/10 for my current build)

The extra armor means i'll have to heal less so having an extra heal isn't as important.

The only thing I like more on the Human path then Cyber is the Ruiner. Though I have only seen 1 cyber runier so far so I can't judge that completly. Though I dought you could do better then a damage/healing ruiner combined with the human +ruiner damage skils.

And yes I want cannons!

[springermis]

So I know there totally newb questions but:

1. I know you can respec skill tree point allocations, but can you change from cyber to human or vice versa?
(I'm assuming I have to build a whole new character for a different alignment).

2. Cannons versus rifles for cyber BEs? Pros and cons. I know you can use grenades with the rifles and are faster but the cannons seem to have a higher ammunition capacity.

Thanks

[K1RB]

1. No, you can't reselect your alignment. Once you pick it, your stuck with it on that char. You can have 1 Cyber BE and 1 Human BE but they have to be 2 seperate chars.

2. I personally prefer rifles over cannons. Yes cannons have better range and ammo but you are slow and personally I don't like any of the secondary fires on the cannons apart from a laser cannon. I'd much rather be able to avoid things with a rifle and be able to launch a grenade into the group when needed.

[springermis]

Thanks for the info K1RB!

[K1RB]

No problem man. You'll find the whole community around here is pretty helpful. You'll even see Denis posting himself as well as other members of SK.

[CEAF]

The with slide attacks is that augmenting them as a cyber doesn't really help if the human path can 1 shot all the trash mobs. (e.g:) non dark elf/wolf pack mobs

I am human side and using a L50 2H red hammer my damage is up over 4K and I one shot all goblins except elites which take about 3 swings. Dark elfs you put them in the air and kill them with a single finisher or hit 6-7 times before you land with increased attack speed. You can use the invuln spider to literally go toe to toe with a pack of dark elves/wolf guys and come out on top.

In other words I don't really see the cyber side putting out more damage at all because the extra slide and combo damage is for the most part wasted and the mobs that take a bunch of swings to kill will go down faster with attack speed capped out.... Further to that you build your combo meter way way faster and NOTHING kills faster then dropping a 500% radius ruiner on a pack of non trash mobs.

[Lymph 03]

The with slide attacks is that augmenting them as a cyber doesn't really help if the human path can 1 shot all the trash mobs. (e.g:) non dark elf/wolf pack mobs

I am human side and using a L50 2H red hammer my damage is up over 4K and I one shot all goblins except elites which take about 3 swings. Dark elfs you put them in the air and kill them with a single finisher or hit 6-7 times before you land with increased attack speed. You can use the invuln spider to literally go toe to toe with a pack of dark elves/wolf guys and come out on top.

In other words I don't really see the cyber side putting out more damage at all because the extra slide and combo damage is for the most part wasted and the mobs that take a bunch of swings to kill will go down faster with attack speed capped out.... Further to that you build your combo meter way way faster and NOTHING kills faster then dropping a 500% radius ruiner on a pack of non trash mobs.



Good point.

Either way you look at it its pretty ballanced. With the cyber path your 4k damage for that first slide in hit would hit for +20% or an extra 800 damage + whatever bonus you are at for you combo metre. I normally get around 6% or 10% with the combo bonus and thats with only 2 skill points atm. so that extra damage boost means a cyber player would hit for an extra 1040-1200 damage.



Either way, seems your pretty switched on about the advantages of your build and i'm sure your happy with it, as am I with my current (lv19....) build.

Happy gaming!

[Scrusby]

I like the Human path, it makes your runer alot cooler.

[K1RB]

The with slide attacks is that augmenting them as a cyber doesn't really help if the human path can 1 shot all the trash mobs. (e.g:) non dark elf/wolf pack mobs

I am human side and using a L50 2H red hammer my damage is up over 4K and I one shot all goblins except elites which take about 3 swings. Dark elfs you put them in the air and kill them with a single finisher or hit 6-7 times before you land with increased attack speed. You can use the invuln spider to literally go toe to toe with a pack of dark elves/wolf guys and come out on top.

In other words I don't really see the cyber side putting out more damage at all because the extra slide and combo damage is for the most part wasted and the mobs that take a bunch of swings to kill will go down faster with attack speed capped out.... Further to that you build your combo meter way way faster and NOTHING kills faster then dropping a 500% radius ruiner on a pack of non trash mobs.


I don't see the need to max out haste if I'm one shotting all the trash mobs (which make up most of the mobs). I one shot all the trash mobs too especially on a slide so why do I need the haste? To swing faster at the guy who is all ready flying off the platform? It does help on some of the leaders and such but I honsetly don't see haste as big in this game as it is in MMO's and such. I just add to my haste via runes and the such instead as opposed to using skills. I personally like the slide because lets say I'm going toe to toe with a dark elf leader, I slide in, get a couple shots, roll out of his shockwave, slide back in etc. So, after building up some combo meter by ping ponging on the trash and getting the increased damage then moving in on the leader, I think the increased damage is more effective though I havn't tested it and probbly won't. Personally, I don't like to spam ruiners so I didn't go human partly because of that, but the cyber ruiners still help in a pinch. I've said it before and I'll say it again, its all about personal preference and your playstyle.

Oh yeah, CEAF, question for you. I have the L50 2h red staff and I have the damage at about 4100 (need to upgrade some more equipment with +2h and staff dmg to boost further) but the final melee damage after the gimp is about 3200 or so. I was just wondering if you were saying that you have over 4k after or before the gimp.

edit: I'm not trying to bash your build by the way, if it works for you, more power to you, thats just not my playstyle is all

[CEAF]

It's all good, I'm not so narrow minded and egotistical to think that my way is the only way! (that would be retarded)

The 4K number is before -25% gimp alas. :( It's using the 2H hammer that looks exactly like a slightly smaller version of Thors hammer. Something something of the Dwarf Kin.. Great weapon. I'll go look what my final melee is when I get home.

What I was saying is that the attack speed comes in handy for killing all the stuff you don't one shot like dark elves, big spiders and the undead wolf pack guys etc... Pop them in the air and you can finish them before they come down or hit the invuln spider and go toe to toe. Build a bit of combo meter and drop the rest of the pack with a ruiner. Works for me anyhow though I can certainly see how the cyber route could work equally well.

What I really need to figure out is a good build for the human elite set which is left path geared. It seems they intend it to be used with a 1H sword based off the helm stats (1H crit)... If the rest of the armor doesn't include +1H damage stuff it might be safe to keep the 2H hammer.

edit: LOL@the board auto turning r e t a r d e d into slow haha. Retarded indeed. :P

[K1RB]

I was going to say, over 4k after the gimp, you most have a whole lot of +2h dmg and hammer runes inserted all over the place lol!

Since I'm at home during my lunch break right now, going to update my current damage totals.

Base Melee Damage 429
Melee Weapon Damage 4046 (2299+76%)
Final Melee Damage 3357 (4475-25%)

Base Ranged Damage 59
Ballistic Weapon Damage 322 (293+10%)
Final Ballistic Damage 324 (381-15%)
Ballistic Range 2709

[Ragnarocker]

Right now I am human but I think I am gonna make a new character who is cyber.

[CEAF]

I was looking at my final melee today and its up around 3600. This is with the 2299 2H (runic hammer of the dwarf kin) almost maxed 2H (+29) and +hammer (+27) and +2 all skills from charms for the extra 5% to 2H from skills. Adding a max str rune would add about 150 more so I think the max theoretical final for a BioE is about 3750. If you managed to somehow stack another +3 (+5 is cap) to Warrior of the Battle Oar you get 7.5% (~130) more so max max max is ~3900.

[Saint]

Yeah, I've gone cyber, and from what I hear about Human advantages and whatnot, I don't really regret it. It wasn't for cannons either, it was more or less just a random pick - but the +spider duration +proc rate (2h cyber staff has the necrotoxin pool proc) and the +ruiner radius are all great. The +armor at the end isn't all that necessary on the tree, I don't bother w/it. I just recently sac'd +2% in Staff damage for an extra +5% in loot drop chance, so my stats dmg wise are now:
Base Melee Damage 429
Melee Weapon Damage 4321 (2299 + 88%)
Final Melee Damage 3563 (4750-25% )

My fierce attack from the spear still does 11k, I can clear just about everything w/that except for Trolls (a quick and easy air finisher + mount to down them). The heal was really nice, but I hardly even use that anymore, or my spider.. I'm sitting at about 2.9k hp, and nearly 2k armor :D I hardly even get below half anymore

[CEAF]

To be honest I think I can sum up the differences between the two really fast:

Human:
- you get faster combo building (more battle cries/heals and ruiners)

Cybernetic:
- you get a higher proc rate (more graviton pulse/necrotizing/whatever your favorite proc is)

Everything else is between the two is roughly equivalent and can be duplicated with a few runes. Specifically speaking to damage output the cybernetic BioE will have the higher up front damage from slides and melee via the combo meter but the human makes it up with faster attack speed and the extra combo level.

[Tumba]

You got it! My thinking was this. If you treat the Bio as a healer in any other game, they need magic to be useful. Magic in Too Human = Combo. Find a way to get combo ASAP, and your golden. And hell, if you can get the costs of heals down, your laughing.


Exactly! But does it work the other way with Defenders. Defenders = Tank, so they should go Cyber?