why the game got boring fast imo

[beastug]

Well we've heard alot of frustrated people going off about the crappy loot drop rates, and rightfully so. i've held my opinion until now, when i hit the 100 hour mark with no red armor drops, and only 1 red weapon, that i couldn't use. No doubt the game showed promise and potential the first play through. But even though i havn't gotten my 1000/1000, or my red set... the game has gotten boring already.

I think the main reason for this is that one can get to level fifty in twenty hours easily, being that it is so easy to put 100+ hours on the game within the first 2 weeks( i'm sure some did in the first week) that's only 1/5 of the gameplay. so the game should be based on progression in end game content. and here's where the problem is. the last 80 hours of content i played were exactly the same as the first 20. same enemies going down in the same number of hits, in the exact same area.

let's look at the game everyone relates this game to and why toohuman (if concepts aren't changed in 2 and 3) won't be talked about at all in 10 years... DIABLO II. you can log on today and there are still just as many players as too human has. What are the elements of a action rpg that came out in 2000 that has people still playing it hours on end? Well, to emphasize the importance of the differences, let's look at the similarities first. Diablo II has 5 acts (yes were talking about the expansion, and will be from here on out). Toohuman has 4. I'll venture to say that's close enough. especially when you consider the fifth act was an expansion which should show with some DLC. Too Human has five classes, diablo has seven? i'll venture to say that's close enough as well. Both games have a level cap, and both have you fighting the same monsters, and doing the same boss fights.

So why is diablo II still being played and still SO good? Not that I think it's the most important difference but it seems to be what everyone wants to talk about, GEAR. Diablo has infinitely more gear than Too human with different tiers, you work your way up, there is always something to look forward to. and the stats they put on the dropped armor are good for different specs in the same class. too human has alot, but it's all the same. blahblah blah of the blah. doesn't matter, someone will find the right runes and make it into whatever they want. yes, diablo II has sockets, but i would consider them rare, on good items at least. I haven't seen the commando set stats, but i'm willing to bet all my armor lacks is maybe 200 armor points. I slotted my armor to have capped slug dmg, rifle dmg, and rate of fire. along with a couple red +skill charms, i am doing max dmg possible for a human commando, maybe off by 10%. correct me if i'm wrong. The fact that this can be done completely negates the thrill of the hunt for reds. not to mention i think the commando set looks like crap and wouldn't wear it over what i have now. along the armor points thought, berserkers can use the same orange 18-24 socket set a defender or commando or any class can. which means, not counting the armor bonus talent in the cyber tree because anyone can get that, all classes are essentially wearing plate, leather, cloth... it's really whatever you want to call it, because they are all the same. which brings me to my next point. character specialization. there is really no need for a tank, and that's saying something coming from a ranged class. everything dies b4 it touches me. if i get surrounded, i spam nades or ruiners. i don't ever need heals because health orbs are dropped all the time. what does a champion really do? oh here comes a berserker, let's make a team of dps and dps when everything dies in 1 hit. FUN! in diablo the classes really help eachother to progress through the game. it's pretty much impossible to beat on hell (hardest difficulty) unless your a sorc or hammerdin that was brought up to do it by getting run throughs. which leads into what i'll say is my final point ( i could go on for longer which i'm sure would just upset you) end game content. I consider anything after the first playthrough for these two games, end game content. when you get done with too human, you hop right back in the same boat. with diablo you can increase difficulty level. seems like such a insignificant difference, but i really think that's a big difference. the monsters jump level, your getting better gear, your still leveling. you really don't stop leveling till you've played hell maybe 50 times. in too human, you hit max maybe 3rd playthrough. I've hit the basic points, there is more to these points though. but I know your tired of reading and either want to rant at me or with me. so have at it. thanks for reading this painfully long post

[Sabotage]

i agree with you, the only thing i wanted was to get to 50 to see if there was anything alse to do but i guess just search for epics which to me is a waste of time since theres no pvp or anything like that, so whats the point in gettin better armor when you can kill the monsters with one hit already.

[Estacado]

I was interested in reading your post, but when I realized you wrote an essay I decided to pass.

Brevity is a good thing if you actually want to be heard. Maybe you don't...

[Zeus]

I was interested in reading your post, but when I realized you wrote an essay I decided to pass.

Brevity is a good thing if you actually want to be heard. Maybe you don't...


If you don't come into a thread expecting to read what the user has to say then please don't read it. Don't just come in here and say you were expecting a sentence or two when this man has written a perfectly good post of his opinion. Carry on hitting the back button and look for people who only write one or two sentences for a post you damn lurker.

[Zeus]

I completely agree with most of this post. Some things are a bit off of my own opinion but not to far. Good post.

[Kargion]

Understand your frustration, also i agree with the poster on less is more. More people would hear your voice if you don't right novels.

Good opinion though.

[SuperJay]

As a novelist myself, I have no problem putting in the 1.5 extra minutes to read four paragraphs instead of two sentences. ;)

That said, I think this is a pretty fair assessment. I'm not even 50 yet and I love playing the game, but I'm actually holding off b/c I don't want to finish it too fast. I know once I get 50 and clear Helheim a couple times, I'll be more or less done with the game. From what I've seen playing three classes so far, they aren't different enough to really justify leveling each one independently. I'll probably get two of mine to 50, if that.

I'm just saddened that a game that's so innovative and deep in many ways is turning out to be so short. I really, really hope that SK has plans for an expansion. I'd happily pay 40 more dollars to do 2-3 more chapters with my current characters, but right now the first four go by so fast that I feel like I'm already running out of things to do after owning the game for only one week. :(

[iron]

I really, really hope that SK has plans for an expansion. I'd happily pay 40 more dollars to do 2-3 more chapters with my current characters, but right now the first four go by so fast that I feel like I'm already running out of things to do after owning the game for only one week. :(


Nope no expansion. Too Human is the first of three games. Yay for trilogys. ;)

[SuperJay]

Nope no expansion. Too Human is the first of three games. Yay for trilogys. ;)


Yeah... so I hear. I really hope that actually happens. I'm more interested in an expansion than a sequel b/c it's just and add-on with more content and can be in our hands much quicker. Maybe they'll release additional missions or other content via DLC; I really hope they do something beyond releasing a sequel in 2-3 years. By that point it may be too late given that the first game is over so fast and doesn't offer a lot of motivation to replay for many folks.

I did read Tim from Ctrl-Alt-Del saying that SK is working on another project at the moment, and may not start on TH2 for a while yet. That doesn't bode well. :(

[sfubear]

yeah i agree with a lot of your points, I think it would be fun if they increased the level cap to 100 in this game and had it up to 200 and 300 respectively in each sequel. I don't think having different level of difficulties would be that important if that one feature were to be added. about twice as much loot is for sure needed though, and maybe one or two more classes, i am not really finding this game boring but I do wish at times there was more going on. I hope in the sequels they add more enemy types (not in this game though) and keep the old ones too, then in TH3 add even more.

[Vespasian]

I'm not much of a loot whore in either Too Human or Diablo II, but to me the main difference that you didn't go into was how Diablo II has 8 player co-op and Too Human only has 2 player. Grinding for loot alone is boring at the best of times, even with one friend it can be lame. But with seven friends, the conversation alone is enough to keep it interesting.



I was interested in reading your post, but when I realized you wrote an essay I decided to pass.

Brevity is a good thing if you actually want to be heard. Maybe you don't...


Brevity alone is apparently not enough to be heard, because your post is short and yet I won't be reading any of your future posts. If your attention span isn't long enough to get all the way through someone's opinion of the game, then don't comment on it.

[KrateroZ]

I did read Tim from Ctrl-Alt-Del saying that SK is working on another project at the moment, and may not start on TH2 for a while yet. That doesn't bode well. :(


Silicon Knights is currently developing 3 projects:
-Too Human Trilogy (updates, DLC, 2 and 3 Part)
-A game for SEGA (in development since 2005 / http://cube.ign.com/articles/598/598290p1.html)
-A 3rd project for which SK became money from the Canadian government :)

SK has appr. 120 people.



I'm not much of a loot whore in either Too Human or Diablo II, but to me the main difference that you didn't go into was how Diablo II has 8 player co-op and Too Human only has 2 player. Grinding for loot alone is boring at the best of times, even with one friend it can be lame. But with seven friends, the conversation alone is enough to keep it interesting


Right, so let's hope that the 4 player online coop will come fast ;)

[MasterBillFlex]

i totally agree, AND i read the whole thing.

but just think, most of these "inconveniences" (<--lol, good thing theres spell check) are there to allow for expansion (hence the sequels). I would believe that this was done on purpose just so SK can take ideas and throw them into more expansions/DLC (instead of getting the same game 3 times, right?). Just imagine... 4 player Live on #2 and 6 player on #3. Concerning character classes... imo i think what is available now is all we need. Instead of creating more classes, maybe focus on further developing skill trees for current classes. I think im just rambling on right now, but thats all i have to say.

[blue_eyed_killer]

i agree with all of your opinions, im getting bored of the playthrough already and i haven't even hit level 50 yet :(

i think a couple of new classes would be interesting, even if it would be just to see what they could come up with, but i strongly think they should tamper with the skill trees a bit :D

[Otori]

Also in full agreement , Ive actually got to a stage now where i log on , and just stand in Aesir....

thats how incredibly bored/boring i become , and have gotten since i hit 50.

Surely Denis + team must have saw through this?

Out of alllll the time they continously tormented us with them playing the game on almost every single Dev diary video , and other interviews etc... Surely 1 of that team must have thought , Hey? , this gets a bit boring...

Tbh , this is what someone mentioned before , nothing mere than a beta , Microsoft has harassed SK to get this game out asap "Do you actually know how many times this thing was meant to come , long enough it had a 230+ countdown day on my IE when i heard about it..."

But now i feel like ive been completely....smashed inside , the game i had such high hopes for , has just devistated me into a state of game depression.

Which makes me cringe inside , cause i expected , so much more.

Sorry :(

[lagster]

read your essay and i kinda agree on some points about it getting repetative but despite your critism's you say it took you 20 hours to finish and after 100 hours you only got one red weapon. look at every 360 game released lately and i doubt they even kept your attention for 100 hours. so is that really 'boring fast'? i dont think so personally. i got no red anythings on my 2 lvl 50's and tbh i not really that fussed as from what i hear they not that great. i would like to see the elite commando rifle but im not overly concerned about getting a full set.

[Sybernetik]

i do love the game but i agree with some of what you say. something needs to be added to increase the long term replay value.

i think there is a competitve element that needs to be added. my idea is to add a 4-player co-op, hardcore-survival mode with leaderboards. 1 death and your out for the round, remainging survivors get a point added to the leaderboard and a chance for more loot.

[HolySiet]

100% agree with the OP

[FlyingApplePie]

it would be cool if you could fram for gear for pvp,but now as it is i am gona farm for gear that is for what killing stuff faster.how much faster than one hit can you go??

[Glitch1283]

I also agree with most of the OP's thoughts, however this does not apply to me...

I can't stop playing even after pouring in 90+ hours into my Champion trying to find the epic set. I do realize I'm doing the same thing over and over again but still I'm not getting bored. However, some things should be balanced out more: The amount of hits it takes to kill an enemy does vary, albeit with very little difference so they could work on this some more.

Also, some more gear would be nice. I seem to be finding the same lam crap over and over again and each sword and staff pretty much looks the same as the one before it. This kind off takes the thrill away of hunting for items but then again, when something red drops it is usually different and better so I get excited again and keep going at it...

Basicly: Yes, this game could use extra features and more gear with better balancing the enemies so gear does make a bigger difference. But about it getting boring fast? Nah, with 100 hrs in a game that's not fast.

Fast would be like Gears of War, playthrough on 8 hrs (maybe do it twice) and never to touch it again...

[Seb 83]

I can see what the OP is getting at... the fact that lvl 50 can be achieved pretty quickly is a slight concern, but since getting there I really don't mind just farming areas for equipment.
I mean, yes Diablo 2 too a lot longer to reach top level, but then I just found that a kit grind after too.
I think though if you think of this as only 1 3rd of a game as it is part of a trilogy, things begin to make a bit more sense.

But then I think I can happily play well past 100 hours and still be enjoying the game as much as when I first played it.

[Boemee]

Im not even bothering to grind more than 50 hours for epics. Your first hour into Too Human 2 and all your equipment will be replaced. Ill just wait for the last game in the trilogy and then Ill grind for the best gear. :)

[RedHerb]

good post, but a few things i can't agree with. let me clarify that i don't think your saying its a bad game.

First like some others said , 100 plus hours on a RPG is damn good. especially with all the other awesome games coming out soon.

secondly i don't know how fair it is to compare too human to diablo 2, i mean diablo2 was the second game in a series and too human is the first.

"when you make a game your try to make the best game you can but you don't know how people will reaction to till they play it"

i forgot who said that but its relevant in that diablo 2 has had the advantage of having a preceding game out and the patches and expansions. it has seen peoples reactions to it and then been able to adapt and change it in order to create an awesome game. SO Now its up SK to build upon too human in the sequel. then you can compare it D2.

a final point which i'm struggling with whether or not i like it myself, the end game, lvl 50.
on one hand whats the point in playing if you can't level? that cool red armor and weapons? maybe. but i have also found that the game really blossoms (can't think of a better word) at level 50. there's some real depth there which can change the game and make it fun.

so maybe i won't be playing it hardcore every night like i was in those first weeks, but it will make a damn fine game to keep coming back too.

plus are there even many 360 owners who would play an RPG for 2-3 years like Diablo2? if not why would you create a game for a market that dosen't exist?

[hockeygmr]

Just kinda throwing this out there.

Too human has basically 3 attacks. Sword, rifle, and ruiner.

Diablo 2 has like a hundred different attacks you can use. Could this possibly attribute to why it got so boring?

[Laonar]

I think there is a lot of interesting points you left out. You also compared everything to cookie cutter things in Diablo II. Also, while gear in too human is important, its know where near as important in D2. With the right gear, any class and any template can be made awesome. How about a fire sorc that does enchant bonus. 30-50k Attack rating with 4-5k fire damage? Hitting phsy immunes is like butter.

I agree with what you say but there is so much more detail to D2 than you really posted.

[Systempunkt]

Well we've heard alot of frustrated people going off about the crappy loot drop rates, and rightfully so. i've held my opinion until now, when i hit the 100 hour mark with no red armor drops, and only 1 red weapon, that i couldn't use. No doubt the game showed promise and potential the first play through. But even though i havn't gotten my 1000/1000, or my red set... the game has gotten boring already.

I think the main reason for this is that one can get to level fifty in twenty hours easily, being that it is so easy to put 100+ hours on the game within the first 2 weeks( i'm sure some did in the first week) that's only 1/5 of the gameplay. so the game should be based on progression in end game content. and here's where the problem is. the last 80 hours of content i played were exactly the same as the first 20. same enemies going down in the same number of hits, in the exact same area.

let's look at the game everyone relates this game to and why toohuman (if concepts aren't changed in 2 and 3) won't be talked about at all in 10 years... DIABLO II. you can log on today and there are still just as many players as too human has. What are the elements of a action rpg that came out in 2000 that has people still playing it hours on end? Well, to emphasize the importance of the differences, let's look at the similarities first. Diablo II has 5 acts (yes were talking about the expansion, and will be from here on out). Toohuman has 4. I'll venture to say that's close enough. especially when you consider the fifth act was an expansion which should show with some DLC. Too Human has five classes, diablo has seven? i'll venture to say that's close enough as well. Both games have a level cap, and both have you fighting the same monsters, and doing the same boss fights.

So why is diablo II still being played and still SO good? Not that I think it's the most important difference but it seems to be what everyone wants to talk about, GEAR. Diablo has infinitely more gear than Too human with different tiers, you work your way up, there is always something to look forward to. and the stats they put on the dropped armor are good for different specs in the same class. too human has alot, but it's all the same. blahblah blah of the blah. doesn't matter, someone will find the right runes and make it into whatever they want. yes, diablo II has sockets, but i would consider them rare, on good items at least. I haven't seen the commando set stats, but i'm willing to bet all my armor lacks is maybe 200 armor points. I slotted my armor to have capped slug dmg, rifle dmg, and rate of fire. along with a couple red +skill charms, i am doing max dmg possible for a human commando, maybe off by 10%. correct me if i'm wrong. The fact that this can be done completely negates the thrill of the hunt for reds. not to mention i think the commando set looks like crap and wouldn't wear it over what i have now. along the armor points thought, berserkers can use the same orange 18-24 socket set a defender or commando or any class can. which means, not counting the armor bonus talent in the cyber tree because anyone can get that, all classes are essentially wearing plate, leather, cloth... it's really whatever you want to call it, because they are all the same. which brings me to my next point. character specialization. there is really no need for a tank, and that's saying something coming from a ranged class. everything dies b4 it touches me. if i get surrounded, i spam nades or ruiners. i don't ever need heals because health orbs are dropped all the time. what does a champion really do? oh here comes a berserker, let's make a team of dps and dps when everything dies in 1 hit. FUN! in diablo the classes really help eachother to progress through the game. it's pretty much impossible to beat on hell (hardest difficulty) unless your a sorc or hammerdin that was brought up to do it by getting run throughs. which leads into what i'll say is my final point ( i could go on for longer which i'm sure would just upset you) end game content. I consider anything after the first playthrough for these two games, end game content. when you get done with too human, you hop right back in the same boat. with diablo you can increase difficulty level. seems like such a insignificant difference, but i really think that's a big difference. the monsters jump level, your getting better gear, your still leveling. you really don't stop leveling till you've played hell maybe 50 times. in too human, you hit max maybe 3rd playthrough. I've hit the basic points, there is more to these points though. but I know your tired of reading and either want to rant at me or with me. so have at it. thanks for reading this painfully long post

I could not have put it better myself Beastug.

Having got two chars to 50, the game is beggining to ware thin for me now.

Ive said since I first hit 50 that levelling was too easy.

I like you do do not complain about drop rates, I complain about the sets and the lack of reason to acquire them. In WoW getting better gear felt like working toward something, in TH its often a step back.

[IR6SHOT]

I dunno the first diablo was pretty much a train wreck in my opinion.

Diablo 2,there werent "hundreds" of skills what did you do when you hit 90? pvp, baal runs, cow level. Baal runs and the secret cow level are basicly the same every time.

I agree with how Diablo raised its PvE based on how many players were in game, which would have ultimately allowed more than 2 people to be in too human. Also diablo 2 only had 5 classes before the expansion.

[hockeygmr]

I dunno the first diablo was pretty much a train wreck in my opinion.

Diablo 2,there werent "hundreds" of skills what did you do when you hit 90? pvp, baal runs, cow level. Baal runs and the secret cow level are basicly the same every time.

I agree with how Diablo raised its PvE based on how many players were in game, which would have ultimately allowed more than 2 people to be in too human. Also diablo 2 only had 5 classes before the expansion.

When u hit 90 u can do uber runs, any boss runs, rush, chaos run, baal run, cow level, and ya pvp

what do u do in too human? run through one of 4 levels that can get pretty dull or run 3-4 those r ur options

so diablo has much more things you can do and thats why it doesnt/didnt get boring very quickly

also there was around 20 skills per skill tree and there were 3 skill trees per char and there was 5 (eventually 7) characters so ya there were 400+skills to choose from