Barefoot running

[Bloodwrath970]

Anyone here do this? It's fun, but painful to start. I just ran 1/2 mile barefoot, for the first time. Asphalt. 3:47. Only bleeding in one spot, surprisingly. Looking at a pair of these: Vibram FiveFingers (http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/products/products_KSO_m.cfm). Gonna see how they preform for running, and PK.

[Darth]

I would advise against that. It is extremely bad for you, as running with no support will cause damage to your arches, joints, back...you may think it is cool now, but it isn't. Smoker when they are 45 and wheezing from bad lungs or dying of cancer, realize cigarettes are not cool.

Trust me. As somebody who the military has made run practically every day for the last 16 years, I know what I speak of.

[Maawdawg]

Yeah, sneakers with good shock absorption will save you a ton of problems. The shock to your joints is crazy without anything on your feet, especially your knees. You only have so much cartilage as cushion and it only lasts so long. :)

[Shikamaru07]

you old guys always trying to ruin a youngsters fun


go ahead and run bearfoot sunny, take off all your clothes while your at it
:D

[Darth]

Except for you Shika. It's good for you. In fact, you should run at LEAST 3 miles a day barefoot on either asphalt or gravel.

[General Twigums]

Cool, but you should listen to what the others have said. My sister does cross country and you should hear some stories about people who didn't wear proper shoes. If you still want to buy those however, I would go with the KSO Trek (http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/products/products_kso_trek_m.cfm) model instead. They look like they have more arch support.

[Darth]

I have a pair of these shoes. I use them for rock climbing. They are comfortable and good for that. I wouldn't run in them though.

[Shikamaru07]

Except for you Shika. It's good for you. In fact, you should run at LEAST 3 miles a day barefoot on either asphalt or gravel.
i do i run to the coner store evryday with no shoes

[Warblade]

i do i run to the coner store evryday with no shoes

i bet the corner store is thinking about re locating :D <- indicates a joke

[Bloodwrath970]

As much as I value the stories, I think this (http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm) should provide some insight of what I've been hearing, and why I'm starting this. Enjoy.

EDIT: Shika, don't give me ideas! :D

[Shikamaru07]

As much as I value the stories, I think this (http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm) should provide some insight of what I've been hearing, and why I'm starting this. Enjoy.

EDIT: Shika, don't give me ideas! :D
naked
naked
naked
naked
naked

[Maawdawg]

I'll take my years of sports experience, time in training rooms, and track running (competitive and otherwise) over an article like that. There are a lot of "it is claimed", "appears to,"may", and "apparently" in there for something that is supposed to be used as a reliable training recommendation.

I would go make an appointment and go talk to an orthopedist and see what their recommendations are about proper footwear in sporting activities and running and get hard information. There is a reason that the best trained, most watched over, and highest paid, and best athletes in the world use footwear for training and competition.

To each is own but I find that article sorely lacking in any form of hard evidence to show me anything different than my experience, and every trainer and doctor I have been to have expressed to me.

[TheRallyKiller]

As much as I value the stories, I think this (http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm) should provide some insight of what I've been hearing, and why I'm starting this. Enjoy.

EDIT: Shika, don't give me ideas! :D

Studies that have a pre-established bias don't provide the best information. As an avid student of kinesiology and working around PTs, OTs, Kinesiologists, etc. I wouldn't invest my feet into one study with semi-positive results. With so many variables associated with an individual and their respective physiology there is no "absolute".

I'm asking you as someone who doesn't want you or anyone to put themselves at risk over and insignificant study(ies). I'm not saying this is incorrect, but with years of counter information and studies I'd wait and run the conventional way.

[Bloodwrath970]

Hmm... Normally, I'm all for modern science, and such, but in this case, I'm not. Explain to me how the Tarahumara people of Mexico manage to run better than prettymuch any other runners in the world, using these:

http://media.publicbroadcasting.net/kuer/newsroom/images/3141168.jpg

I do realise that these people live this way, running miles at a time is therefore a lifestyle. HOWEVER, human anatomy being what it is, this lifestyle is not genetic. Sure, certain genes that would contribute to an athletic build may have become more prevalent in these people, but they're still only human. Cheers.

[DirkPitt45]

Hmm how could they compare to anyone? That was probably when the spanish came over to mexico. No one else that people knew of had any reason to run like that soo. Rather easy to say your the best runners around when you have no one to compare yourselves to.

And if you mess up your feet you'll regret it immensely. I cracked both heal plates (combination of skiing too much and cleats that didn't fit right I think, never knew when I did it, but I did sometime.) when I was 12, couldn't walk anywhere for two weeks after I went to the hospital about it. Now I have to deal with orthopedic shoes and feet that get incredibly sore after any serious running or soccer.

Stick with shoes ;)

[Grief]

Why? How does that get you a better workout at all.

[Wildkarde]

They at least are providing themselves with some form of support and protection. just also keep in mind that running on asphault is very harsh on your joints and that it can get very hot... haha

just be careful, people are just trying to give you some advice.

[Bloodwrath970]

I know. I'm looking at the advice. I'm just deciding that I'm going to trust something that apparently works in practice, more than "scientific experiments". They've (The Tarahumara) competed in multiday marathons, and won. It's not a distant-past people; they still exist! They could literally run their prey so far that the prey gave out before they did. Here's something I noticed: I ran for 5 minutes because my shoes were soaked this past weekend, and I used muscles that have NEVER been used before for running. I felt it. Protection: yes, support: no. Those are tire-treads, with fasteners. Haha.

[Maawdawg]

Honestly you are picking tiny small pieces of outlying information to argue against basically every bit of empirical evidence on the matter.

Taking a small group of people who have used running as its method for mate selection for hundreds of years (at least) as a standard study group when that in itself removes them from comparison to the rest of the world at large doesn't make sense. They have been selective breeding better physical running traits into their genetics for generations, besides training athletically at only that thing from the time their parents can strap them into a set of those leather strap and car tire sandals.

There was a show on Discovery called Last Man Standing that did an episone on that tribe last year and I didn't find them to be drastically faster than the US and European guys who went there even though the Western people weren't used to running in those shoes or at altitude. Given proper shoes that they were used to, the people on the show would have been on the same level as them, imo.

As I said above, do what you like. You should really consult an Orthopedist before beginning a training regimen like this though to get hard information on the matter.

[Darth]

Did they also tell you how the Tarahumara runners of Mayan Mexico are today? About the chronic joint pain? Deteriorated cartilage? Compressed vertebrae? There was a reason those people had such generally short life spans.

As for your article, hey, I can do that too. Here is my article.

Sex. You think you are doing it right, but apparently you are not. Doctor Stephen Schwartzman says,

"Most people just insert their penis into a woman’s vagina. It is what they are taught to do. Turns out, our ancestors had the right idea."

He is talking about the latest new age intercourse method, known as scrunching.

"Basically, the man rubs his scrotum over the woman’s knee caps. It is very erotic, and most people find it more enjoyable than penetrative sex."

When asked how he discovered this, he said he got it from the ancient Kwajazulu Tribe of present day Northern Congo. It was very popular with them.

(We could not reach any members of the Kwajazulu Tribe for comment as they apparently died off around 400 years ago due to extremely low birth rates."

Apparently it is safer and more satisfying. Also, it might lead to higher fertility among women aged 18-30, and may increase a man’s sex drive by up to 37%! So give scrunching a try!

Doctor Stephen Schwartzman has a degree in Dermatology from the University of Lebanon.

[Maawdawg]

I ran for 5 minutes because my shoes were soaked this past weekend, and I used muscles that have NEVER been used before for running. I felt it.

Stand and move on small balance balls under each foot with no shoes on and you will use those same muscles without the repeated shock to your joints. Yoga balance poses while standing barefoot will also make you involuntarily use those small packets of muscles to adjust your balance, especially if your major muscles are tired due to a workout, either option has no high impact joint stress.

[Grief]

It just seems kind of pointless, I'm sure if you train it for a while it could be good, but I really don't see that much of a benefit.

Like I run a mile every day and running 1/2 in almost 4 minutes isn't that good, and I'm 250 I guarantee you probably weigh a lot less than me. lol I'm just guessing, but the average gaming population weighs 150 lol

[Bloodwrath970]

Did they also tell you how the Tarahumara runners of Mayan Mexico are today? About the chronic joint pain? Deteriorated cartilage? Compressed vertebrae? There was a reason those people had such generally short life spans.

As for your article, hey, I can do that too. Here is my article.

Sex. You think you are doing it right, but apparently you are not. Doctor Stephen Schwartzman says,

"Most people just insert their penis into a woman’s vagina. It is what they are taught to do. Turns out, our ancestors had the right idea."

He is talking about the latest new age intercourse method, known as scrunching.

"Basically, the man rubs his scrotum over the woman’s knee caps. It is very erotic, and most people find it more enjoyable than penetrative sex."

When asked how he discovered this, he said he got it from the ancient Kwajazulu Tribe of present day Northern Congo. It was very popular with them.

(We could not reach any members of the Kwajazulu Tribe for comment as they apparently died off around 400 years ago due to extremely low birth rates."

Apparently it is safer and more satisfying. Also, it might lead to higher fertility among women aged 18-30, and may increase a man’s sex drive by up to 37%! So give scrunching a try!

Doctor Stephen Schwartzman has a degree in Dermatology from the University of Lebanon.

Darth, I don't see what you're getting at...

Let me elaborate:

I have read many articles on the Tarahumara, and none have said anything about the aforementioned injuries in Tarahumura, and many articles say that forefoot-striking decreases injury rates. If you want to refer some sources, feel free.

Also, if you're going to be a d*ck, just leave. I've had enough BS thrown at me lately, without someone who can pretend to have a good comeback on teh interwebz pretend to be a smart-guy. I don't mind valid point-counterpoint, but simplly being negative is not gonna get you any respect, no matter your military service, experience, or age. Have a good night.

@Maaw - I might try it. I'm not a big fan of yoga. My fencing coach has forced us to do yoga/tai-chi for quite some time, and I never really felt any benefits, and it just bored me to tears.

@zee - Try running 1/2 a mile in bare feet. Changes the game. I can run fairly well (I used to be able to run 5 miles in 36.5 minutes, but had to take a break, and lost some cardio. I now run 2 miles in 10 minutes and some-odd seconds). Running barefoot on a rough surface is not the same. And you're right, I am a lot lighter. 5'10", and 125. Haha.

[Grief]

@zee - Try running 1/2 a mile in bare feet. Changes the game. I can run fairly well (I used to be able to run 5 miles in 36.5 minutes, but had to take a break, and lost some cardio. I now run 2 miles in 10 minutes and some-odd seconds). Running barefoot on a rough surface is not the same. And you're right, I am a lot lighter. 5'10", and 125. Haha.

haha, I just guessed. I'm a bodybuilder so I'm a lot different than the average gaming population lol.

I'm not really downing you on it, you can do what you want to do. I'm just wondering why lol.

[Bloodwrath970]

Yeah, I getcha. Hey hey hey, not a gamer anymore! :D I've been getting into athletics a lot more lately, since my 360 broke.

[Maawdawg]

@Maaw - I might try it. I'm not a big fan of yoga. My fencing coach has forced us to do yoga/tai-chi for quite some time, and I never really felt any benefits, and it just bored me to tears.


You should look for a more intense cardio yoga. The P90X yoga video is insane, I always laughed at yoga before I tried it. It is a 90 minute video and it is literally flop-sweat inducing. In my experience I only get the benefit of the small muscle motion when my major muscles are worn out. In the P90X video the first 50 minutes is all intensive cardio motion and the last 40 minutes stability and balance poses, so it does the job.

[Darth]

No problem. I was just joking. This is actually very healthy. Seriously, you should forego the shoes and run on asphalt as much as you want. :)

[Bloodwrath970]

Hmm. I'm kinda low on cash, so I can't even think about that right now. I'll try some intense conditioning of my own devices, followed by a series of balance exercises, and see what happens. I have bad balance already, so I forsee disaster in my house. :P

[Maawdawg]

In that case, don't try it near sharp cornered coffee tables or counters. :D

[Shikamaru07]

Sex. You think you are doing it right, but apparently you are not. Doctor Stephen Schwartzman says,

"Most people just insert their penis into a woman’s vagina. It is what they are taught to do. Turns out, our ancestors had the right idea."

He is talking about the latest new age intercourse method, known as scrunching.

"Basically, the man rubs his scrotum over the woman’s knee caps. It is very erotic, and most people find it more enjoyable than penetrative sex."

When asked how he discovered this, he said he got it from the ancient Kwajazulu Tribe of present day Northern Congo. It was very popular with them.

(We could not reach any members of the Kwajazulu Tribe for comment as they apparently died off around 400 years ago due to extremely low birth rates."

Apparently it is safer and more satisfying. Also, it might lead to higher fertility among women aged 18-30, and may increase a man’s sex drive by up to 37%! So give scrunching a try!

Doctor Stephen Schwartzman has a degree in Dermatology from the University of Lebanon.
who told you guys about B**** G** S****????


that is suppose to be classifed infomartion

[Darth]

Yoga is very difficult believe it or not. One of my girlfriends in Hawaii actually lived in India and studied Yoga there for over 2 years. It is excellent for increasing your balance and flexibility, and depending on which "style" you do, can be a real cardio-breathing challenge. She had this one class she taught where she simulated "native India" for the class. She basically put a bunch of humidifiers in the room and cranked the heat up. It was almost 110 degrees and about 90% humidity, and they did this intensive Yoga for an hour. Everybody literally looked like they had just jumped in a lake when they were done.

[Maawdawg]

Yeah, that is Bikram Yoga. Insane people exercise as I like to call it. :p

[Bloodwrath970]

Somehow, I knew Shika would say something about that "article". ROFL.

@Darth - I could probably simulate those conditions by going outside after it rains, here. Florida, man, it's brutally-awesome! The yoga my coach does is really just a bunch of s*ite. This is where I would use modern stretches over the traditional methods.

[Darth]

Yeah but it was a good workout. Man. Jenny was really...flexible.

[lordhering]

I would suggest you really look into the background of these shoes. I say this because I have purchased 4 pairs since they have come out in November of 2007. If you try and run or do ANYTHING in these shoes without doing therapy on your feet you will regret it. I have seen 2 individuals severely bruise their heels and fracture a toe.

As a personal trainer I wear these about 8-10 hours a day but it took me about 6 months of therapy to strengthen my feet to wear them. Wearing a structured shoes actually weakens your feet overtime and trying to wear Vibrams will actually damage your feet if you don't do therapy.

Therapy = stretching and realigning your tendons in your feet, doing compensatory exercises to retrain your arches and wearing toe spreaders to get your toes to actually grab the ground. There is also learning to move an entirely different way. This is usually called mid-foot striking.

[Bloodwrath970]

Yeah, I always have to work my feet after fencing. That's pretty rough on the feet as well. I'm not heel-striking when I run bare-foot, because it is NOT a plesant sensation. I'll keep that in mind, hering. I'm not going to jump right in to Parkour with the Vibram's but that's where I'd like to head EVENTUALLY. It could be a while in coming.

[TheRallyKiller]

Hmm... Normally, I'm all for modern science, and such, but in this case, I'm not. Explain to me how the Tarahumara people of Mexico manage to run better than prettymuch any other runners in the world, using these:

http://media.publicbroadcasting.net/kuer/newsroom/images/3141168.jpg

I do realise that these people live this way, running miles at a time is therefore a lifestyle. HOWEVER, human anatomy being what it is, this lifestyle is not genetic. Sure, certain genes that would contribute to an athletic build may have become more prevalent in these people, but they're still only human. Cheers.

And the Spartans trained shoeless until their early 20's to develop the sturdy feet needed if one lost his boots but what do we know about their skeletal structure, joints, etc.? You have a people who breed with one another and can develop abnormalities in comparison to the "average" human population and that could bring about sturdiness in the foot overall - but to your point, how can you compare them to runners world-wide? How can you compare their footwear to runners worldwide? We're going off heresay and perception here, we don't know how structurally supportive those sandals are (and having owned Birkenstocks I can attest to the potential of a sandal), what they're made of, and whether they impede, aid, or have any affect on biepdal movement.

AND lifestyle can lead to genetic aftereffects whether you believe in evolution, creationism of whatever.

To be fair, for all we know these people could have stunted lifespans, terrible foothealth, or any other ailment that could be related to their lifestyle and culture - again, this pertinent information is absent, however crucial, in determining a sound theory from all of this.

Again, with so many variables in cultural differences alone we cannot derive a sound conclusion from this (especially considering all the other factors that could contribute or detract to their overall wellbeing and a viable comparison to barefoot running).

I'm not trying to discourage this, I'm just against sporadic claims at health benefits or lack of acknowledgement of known issues with such activity.

Hey, you clearly want to do this so do it. I just honestly don't want anything bad to happen to anyone here as I look at it as a small community I'm a part of (whether you guys want me or not ; ) ). I'm just saying that with so many factors in even the simplest action and putting all other variables aside, this is still a complicated matter and not an argument defeated by saying "well these people do it" or "some research says it may work".

If it is beneficial ultimately, then I'll promote it...I just don't want to see you hurt yourself in some way man.

Best of luck to you no matter what.

[Bloodwrath970]

Thanks, Armagh. Definitely a complex issue.