Toronto Maple Leafs: Underdog Or Persistent Failure?

[Castrum]

Discuss.

I personally think the Leafs have been a failure for ages now, and I can't honestly tell what their fans see in them.

[Shaynard]

See the beginning of the Official NHL thread and I say the same thing.. people here don't watch Hockey.. they watch the Leafs... and the Leafs have been a BAD team for a long time..

I believe the reason is the fans actually.. People buy the Leafs and go to their games, buy the jerseys, regardless of IF the team is doing well.. Most hockey markets require a decent team in order to make revenue.. Toronto does not.. So why would they care if they win or not?

That said they took some steps in a more constructive direction this year.. I like what coach Ron Wilson brings and I hope they stick it out with him and continue to rebuild..

[laxfish76]

Rebuilding for 42 years :D

Haha, I actually used to love them (as everyone in southern Ontario does at one point)...then I learned about hockey ;)

I am not really a lover of hockey now, but I can say my favourite team is Calgary.

//Lax

[Castrum]

I was telling my buddy on MSN last night that I bet Gordie Howe in a wheelchair with skates instead of wheels could singlehandedly demolish the Leafs :-P

Personally, I'm a Thrashers fan myself. I've watched 3 of their games and have no idea who's on their roster, but I like their logo and jersey :-P

Hmm... perhaps I can relate to a Leafs fan after all.

[Maawdawg]

Some franchises are just broken. Leafs in NHL, LA Clippers in the NBA, the current iteration of the Cincinnati Bengals in the NFL, the Pittsburgh Pirates and Washington Nationals in MLB.

Normally it is at least 1 part bad ownership, 1 part a decade of a terrible GM, and one part the media pointing it out so much that no self respecting player will want to go there to try to play. All it really takes is a dumb/cheap owner to completely cripple a franchise though.

[Shaynard]

Players in Toronto get abused by fans if they play poorly and made King's when they play well.. The problem is this can all happen to the same player in one game :rolleyes: ... Some players become underrated and never realise thier potential in Toronto... Some get overrated and become comfortable playing to half potential for a large paycheque... (Like Sundin)

Only a leaf's fan would say Tie Domi is better than Stevie Y..... and believe me I've heard some say it... -shakes head-

Detroit is the opposite in my mind.. Management DEMANDS success... and they get it because players are proud to play for such a contender...

The major problems off-ice are becomming realised and addressed in turn by TMLM, hopefully next year that will transulate into some good hockey on ice...

[SuperJay]

Only a leaf's fan would say Tie Domi is better than Stevie Y..... and believe me I've heard some say it... -shakes head-

WHAAAAAT?!? *roars* :mad:

Admittedly I don't know much about Domi's career overall, just know he was the enforcer type who racked up a ton of penalty minutes. Yay, I guess? I'm sure he beat Stevie in time served in the box, but beyond that... better at what? Being a jerk?


Detroit is the opposite in my mind.. Management DEMANDS success... and they get it because players are proud to play for such a contender...

I really can't comment on the Leafs' management or ownership (what's TMLM?), but I think Ken Holland and the rest of the Wings' management just have high expectations of their players and the organization as a whole. You're right, being a contender every year probably helps everyone understand that expectation. When you make the playoffs every season for almost 20 straight years, that keeps the bar pretty high for everyone.

[Shaynard]

WHAAAAAT?!? *roars* :mad:

Admittedly I don't know much about Domi's career overall, just know he was the enforcer type who racked up a ton of penalty minutes. Yay, I guess? I'm sure he beat Stevie in time served in the box, but beyond that... better at what? Being a jerk?



I really can't comment on the Leafs' management or ownership (what's TMLM?), but I think Ken Holland and the rest of the Wings' management just have high expectations of their players and the organization as a whole. You're right, being a contender every year probably helps everyone understand that expectation. When you make the playoffs every season for almost 20 straight years, that keeps the bar pretty high for everyone.

People in Toronto actually have said that when the Leaf's played the Wings.. tie isn't even a hockey player in comparison.. More of a boxer.. lol

Toronto Maple Leafs Managment.. TMLM

The Wings are there every year because of that high expectation.. Holland would grab a guy more commited and dedicated than skilled.. They have a SOLID system and as long as the players give their all the system will work well enough to see them in contention every year..

Toronto players are held accountable to the media.. and Detroit to their team and teammates.. That mentality alone makes all the difference I'm sure... Pat Quinn longtime coach and GM in Toronto made excuses for players instead of holding them personally accountable.

[laxfish76]

Domi was the best; I remember when he got suspended in the playoffs or something, and EVERYONE in Toronto was pissed...

My brother even had a sign that said "Free Domi" or something...:D

//Lax

[Shaynard]

Domi was the best; I remember when he got suspended in the playoffs or something, and EVERYONE in Toronto was pissed...

My brother even had a sign that said "Free Domi" or something...:D

//Lax

yeah Toronto had him on their no.1 lineup because he was POPULAR.. people seemed to overlook the fact that he wasn't good at playing hockey.. I'm cool with it though because I had the chance to say so to both pat Quinn and Tie Domi in person.. made me feel better.. :D

But that is the problem with many leaf fans.. they are blindly loyal to their team.. Tie Domi scored 4 goals this Season?.. we should make him team Captain..

[SuperJay]

People in Toronto actually have said that when the Leaf's played the Wings.. tie isn't even a hockey player in comparison.. More of a boxer.. lol

Toronto Maple Leafs Managment.. TMLM

The Wings are there every year because of that high expectation.. Holland would grab a guy more commited and dedicated than skilled.. They have a SOLID system and as long as the players give their all the system will work well enough to see them in contention every year..

Toronto players are held accountable to the media.. and Detroit to their team and teammates.. That mentality alone makes all the difference I'm sure... Pat Quinn longtime coach and GM in Toronto made excuses for players instead of holding them personally accountable.

Ahhh, yeah, that's interesting - I wasn't aware of the internal problems with the Leafs and their coach / GM. (And Quinn just took over as coach for the Oilers today, how ironic.) Obviously I'm kind of a local hockey fan first and foremost - I love the sport itself, but I don't pay a lot of attention to the ups and downs of the other franchises, just focus on my Wings. :)

And that Stevie vs. Domi thing... wow. A quick glance at their stats tells a different story, but obviously he was a popular, well-known player. I'm not surprised he was suspended in a series given the kind of crap he pulled, like punching an obnoxious Flyers fan or staying at his hotel during a playoff game when the coach didn't put him in that night? That's immature, selfish BS - act like a professional, you know? Sounds like the polar opposite of Stevie Y, too.

Yeah, I'm biased - Yzerman is my all-time hero - but good lord. Domi sounds more like an overgrown child than a professional athlete.

[Shaynard]

Yeah, I'm biased - Yzerman is my all-time hero - but good lord. Domi sounds more like an overgrown child than a professional athlete.

No bias there.. you are right..

Steve Yzerman is an elite player.. Domi is barely a decent one.. he was popular because of fights and his attitude (which i can't agree with personally). Steve let his games speak for him... I have 2000% respect for a player like Yzerman.. I do have autographs from both... Both were friendly in person.. With what i said to Domi I'm lucky he didn't punch me let alone be kind and friendly :D

[prodigy1998]

the Leafs have some good games...not many though....very much glad i've been a Red Wings fan for years...lol

[SuperJay]

No bias there.. you are right..

Steve Yzerman is an elite player.. Domi is barely a decent one.. he was popular because of fights and his attitude (which i can't agree with personally). Steve let his games speak for him... I have 2000% respect for a player like Yzerman.. I do have autographs from both... Both were friendly in person.. With what i said to Domi I'm lucky he didn't punch me let alone be kind and friendly :D

LOL, maybe so. And I agree re: Yzerman, that's part of why I idolize him, he's always been humble, generous, and unselfish where his team is concerned. Players like him and Nick Lidstrom and Martin Brodeur are part of the reason I like hockey better than any other North American professional sport: they're great athletes with incredible skills and talent, but they're not acting like spoiled little pricks out in the public eye. Obviously you see that far more in baseball, football, or basketball.

Anyway, I can understand why a player like Domi would be popular at home, but to be so blinded by your own enthusiasm as to utter heresy like that... inconthievable. :o