the NFL draft

[Maawdawg]

Love it? Hate it? What is your take on the whole thing.

I am a huge draft freak and since I watch so much NFL football I like to see what all the teams are doing. It is a good way to learn about incoming players as well. I had a featured blog and draft article about the Bears draft needs and their draft last year on ESPN but I doubt I will write anything up this year as I haven't been following it quite so closely.

[Nicholbert]

I will keep up with it via internet, quick flips back and forth on ESPN, but I do not go out of my way to watch it. It is exciting sometimes, but all the hype leading up to it usually burns me out to the point that I don't care. All the speculation, who should do whats, etc. I would rather just watch it for pure surprise. But as drafts go, it is by far the most exciting of all the drafts.

[Sw0ll_MC25]

NFL draft, I only care about AFC west.

I think that there should be a rookie cap. It's unfortunate to see a team drop 30 million on an unproven player. For a team like the Chiefs, if they were to draft a high profile player, and then he turns out to be crap, it will take the Chiefs years to recover there loss. Hence a rookie cap would solve this.

I could be wrong but I think the NBA darft does something simular.

/2cents

[Maawdawg]

Yes, the NBA uses a pay slotting system, which all amateur drafts should use. It protects teams from terrible draft picks ruining them, like the Lions. It still cant protect them fully if repeatedly make mistakes (I am looking at you Portland Trailblazers). It is there because in the NBA, regardless of position the elite payers get paid a max deal so everyone works on the same payscale, that isn't true in MLB or NFL.

The NFL should do the same, the problem with that in the NFL and why I think it hasn't been instituted is the variance in pay from position to position, so there is a whole other level of qualifiers since there is a big difference between ILB pay and QB pay.

Baseball actually has a different pay problem in the draft. Small market teams pass on picking some top talent because they don't think they will be able to sign them. then the top talent slides down and the major market teams get high value players at positions they should have never reached, so the rich get richer. A slotting system would easily fit into the MLB draft but it won't be put in because Gene Orza, the players union prez is a greedy idiot who doesn't worry about what is best for the league, just individual players' wallets.

[Sw0ll_MC25]

Yeah having a rookie cap would be great for teams that can't get A+ talent. I can't wait for the day when KC will be competitive again. lol

[Magnum]

My team rarely benefits from the draft as they tend to give away their picks, but I imagine that is different this year as they made it to the Playoffs this past year.

Yes, I'm a Dolphins fan.

[Nicholbert]

...because Gene Orza, the players union prez is a greedy idiot who doesn't worry about what is best for the league, just individual players' wallets.

OMG I can't stand this guy or Fehr, OR Selig. They think they have done so much for the game on a positive level, and yet here the MLB stands in one of its darkest eras...these jackasses need to be removed so the real cleanup can begin.

[Eleazar]

Yes, the NBA uses a pay slotting system, which all amateur drafts should use. It protects teams from terrible draft picks ruining them, like the Lions. It still cant protect them fully if repeatedly make mistakes (I am looking at you Portland Trailblazers). It is there because in the NBA, regardless of position the elite payers get paid a max deal so everyone works on the same payscale, that isn't true in MLB or NFL.

The NFL should do the same, the problem with that in the NFL and why I think it hasn't been instituted is the variance in pay from position to position, so there is a whole other level of qualifiers since there is a big difference between ILB pay and QB pay.



I don't know why you are looking at the Blazers when they have the best young team in the NBA. BTW if your a Blazers fan thanks for Jack, I was skeptical at first, but since Granger has gone down he has proven to be a lot better than I thought. Still though I don't like undersized SGs unless they deserve to be the number 1 option on almost every team in the league, and Jack just isn't a good enough PG to merit keeping him over Ford. Enough about the Pacers though.

I agree the NFL does need to have a rookie payscale. Although there is a huge pay difference between different positions it rarely comes into play with rookies. In the first round, especially the top ten, no matter where you are drafted you are going to make a little bit more than the person behind you and a little bit less than the person in front of you. With the only exception being QBs. A QB will make a lot more, but that is the only position that really has an effect. Even if that wasn't true they could just as easily make a payscale that takes into effect the different positions, or they can just have a rookie salary cap where each team can only spend a certain percentage of their cap on rookies. Either way there needs to be a stop to rookies getting Peyton Manning type money. Manning is going to be a first ballot HOFer, and rookie QBs are making only a couple million less on average per year than Manning did on his latest contract.

[Maawdawg]

Portland should have the best young talent in the league after the # of high picks they have had. I commented on them because of some of their more notorious misses in the draft.

*took Bowie (coming off leg surgery) over Jordan
*traded out of the slot in 2005 instead of taking Chris Paul
*took Oden (not near dominant so far and oft injured) over Durant

before those, if you are into bball history, they traded away Moses Malone for a 1st rounder shortly after drafting him. Overall they have made some TERRIBLE draft decisions. Think of where their team would be with Chris Paul right now, or would have been with Jordan. It is still early to tell on the Oden thing but I would be shocked in 5 years if Durant isn't All-NBA and Oden is still struggling with leg injuries.

(not a Blazers fan btw, I have been a Celtics fan here I was playing bball in my church league in grammar school.) :)

[Eleazar]

I know all about the past mistakes, I just thought you were talking recently. Trading down in 2005 and missing out on Paul and Williams might not have been a great move, but they have had more good or great drafts recently than just about anyone. Getting LaMarcus Aldrige, Brandon Roy, and Sergio Rodriguez the following year makes up for it. Right now Portland has a better, although only by 1 win, record. If Oden can stay healthy for at least 72 games a season he will prove to be a great pick. Probably never put up the stat line as Durant, but his contribution will be just as important.

[Maawdawg]

The only thing I wish they would do with the NFL draft is condense it down further to make it all one day. A general manager should not need 10-15 minutes to make a pick, when your pick comes up you should either have your perspective trades lined up or your top 3 players listed at that number and be able to pick near instantly.

The second day is pretty pointless, especially after the first half of the fourth round. There is always a lot of scrambling to get people that were missed in the top 3 rounds and slipped to day 2. There are normally some great value picks in the 4th round but anything after that is more or less a crapshoot for roster fillers, since the majority of the starter talent is done by then. You may find someone with a bad injury history, from a small school, or with legal troubles that slips to the low rounds but fnding an unknown quantity that turns into an All-Pro is exceedingly rare now.

[Eleazar]

I think 7 rounds is just fine. One of the reasons the Colts have been so good so long is because Polian has been brilliant with his second day picks, and usually they come from the 5th or 6th round.

Although I agree 15 minutes it a bit lengthy, it isn't as simple as you think. The only people who can really have any idea of who they are drafting are the first 5 or so picks. After that you might have a general idea, but you just don't know. These decisions aren't like Madden, these are multi-million dollar picks. They can decide whether or not you have a job next year. If they don't take at least 5 minutes they probably aren't giving this enough thought. As well it takes at least two minutes between a team picks before they announce it and makes it official.

[Maawdawg]

Every team has a ranking board and has evaluated these players for years. They all have an idea of who they want and where each player should be picked and when they will be available. Every team should be rating each player and have an idea when they would pick them. They know their positional needs on their team. Then if they see someone at or above the value they have attributed to them either by overall talent, or by team positional need they should take them.

If every GM had a "best player available" board and a "best player by position" board (which they should) they should be able to make their draft choices much quicker than they do.

The Colts do an amazing job with their draft in the late rounds as do the Saints, much better than my Bears do unfortunately. The Bears normally do good in the 3rd/4th rounds but miss on players higher or lower than that.

I am not saying cut down from 7 rounds, just cut the time length of the picks.

[Maawdawg]

If, with no scouting department outside of me watching college football and paying attention to various mock draft sites and player rankings and videos I can come up with something like this before a draft there is no reason a paid GM shouldn't be able to do the same thing with much better accuracy for his team.

This is a copy/paste of my Bears draft blog from last year on ESPN.com. (NOTE: this was written pre-combine last year so Manningham was rated low due to injury concerns. Once he ran a fast 40 there was no way he would fall that far.)

DA BEARS AND DA DRAFT

Since this has been my hot topic of conversation of late on my wall here is my latest hopes for the Bears draft of ‘08.

Overall I would really like to see Angelo trade back in rd 1 to pick up 2 late 1s this year, if he can’t do that i would be fine with them dropping back a few slots to pick up another 2. That would likely be dependent on a high end defensive player falling into the #14 area, someone the bears don’t need but someone would jump up to trade for.
If they can’t Trade here are my idea of the team’s needs and what/who they should be looking for in the draft.

Team Needs (in order)
OT – Miller has moved to pasture, need a stud LT to let Tait go back to RT
RB – Need an NFL starting ready back, Benson is a waste of Gatorade
WR – Need 1 starter, a late round athlete type guy would be good too.
QB – with the 2 “QBs” we have back get a guy who can be ready to start in ‘09
OL – another quality T or G for depth
DT – Pass-rush style athletic type, not before late rd 3 or 4
S – Coverage type, Brown can’t stay healthy, everyone else is average at best

Who I would be happy with them picking, by round
Rd 1
I would love to see the bears address the gaping hole at LT in round 1, then need “an anchor for a decade” type player. If Clady falls to them grab him, otherwise go Williams (2 sacks allowed in 2 years) or Otah (raw mountain of a man). If for some reason McFadden or Ryan freefalls to here you have to grab them but I am not holding my breath for that. Mendenhall or Stewart would be acceptable here. I would hate a WR pick in 1 just because there are bound to be quality guys through round 2.

Rd 2
Mid round 2 at tackle there will be alot less to go around so it will be a matter of hoping someone fell to here. After the first round the tackle class drops off considerably imo. For WR you could go alot of ways, there are a bunch of top flight guys who could still be hanging around. Felix Jones would likely be the highest rated back left mid 2nd round. For QB you could go Brohm if he gets this far or pick Henne/Flacco (maybe trade back a bit and do so). Or just showing you have huge brass ones and risk taking who is left in rd 3.

Rd 3 (2 Picks)
I can’t even try to rate OL guys here so I am not going to try. Skill guys this is a very deep WR/RB draft so there should be quality guys here. I would look at Rice or Smith here, both proven guys with solid track records and good production. If they haven’t got a QB here they have to pick one here. Maybe they will try and hold out for someone good to fall this late but that is a huge risk.

Overall:By the end of round 3 the bears should have 4 offensive players unless some stud defensive guy is inexplicably falling and they can’t pass him up. Best case reasonable scenario would look like this for me….

Scenario 1: No trades, just best player available to fit a hole – 1(14)- OT Chris Williams, 2(45)- QB Chad Henne, 3(75) – WR Mario Manningham , 3(90) – RB Kevin Smith

Scenario 2: Trade back in round 1 for an added rd 1-2 pick, then get the best players you can at the new slots QB Brian Brohm, OT Sam Baker, 2(45)RB Felix Jones, 3(75)WR Mario Manningham, 3(90)S Thomas DeCloud

[exkon]

The only team I really care about is the Seahawks and I generally catch the draft news the day after.

I'm curious to see who we'll be drafting now, since we've picked up TJ "Who's ya Momma". I was hoping for Michael Crabtree, but looks like we'll be going a different route.

[Eleazar]

There is a lot more than just who is the best player. There are usually three or four different people who have a say, as well as other teams calling trying to make trades. As a fan it is easy to say, oh you should take so and so. When you are the one actually paying these players millions of dollars you are going to use as much time to make your decision as you have. Almost all the time you can't just say this player is clearly better than that player. If it was that clear it would be a lot easier to predict a draft than it is.

[Maawdawg]

I understand their are budget issues and such but I think you are severely underrating how much scouting and player slotting and ranking is done before the draft. I can't believe that there is that much shuffling in player rankings as it is going on. The players on the board aren't changing. If you have done your homework and rated everyone as to how much your team needs them to improve and win there shouldn't be that many really hard decisions.

Make the picks all 5 minutes and give the GMs the ability to use 2 extensions of 5 or 10 minutes each over the course of the draft. That way fast picks can be done quickly without all the waiting around for the clock to run out and see if anyone calls for a trade. and if someone is stuck with making a final call or a trade they can get an extension. It would add a whole level to the need of having a good GM for your team.

[Laonar]

I think the draft is a little boring and they put it out there to much but I do pay attention to who the Steelers take.

[sir woimz]

Love it

If I'm not on TH.net I'm on some mock draft site.

Please Miami select a good DB with the 25th pick. Then I hope they take a DT and WR with there two 2nd rounders.

[Maawdawg]

woimz since you seem to be as much of a draft freak as me check out this site. That is if you don't use it already.

It is a huge database of mock drafts from across the net, along with when they updated last. If you check it every few days it is basically the only draft resource you need. Don't believe the title, it isn't a redskins only site. It just started that way.

http://www.hailredskins.com/MockDraft.htm

[sir woimz]

woimz since you seem to be as much of a draft freak as me check out this site. That is if you don't use it already.

It is a huge database of mock drafts from across the net, along with when they updated last. If you check it every few days it is basically the only draft resource you need. Don't believe the title, it isn't a redskins only site. It just started that way.

http://www.hailredskins.com/MockDraft.htm

haha, that the site I'm on now. It's really good and the update it alot.

[sir woimz]

This is what I hope the Fins take in the draft.

1. DT. Jerry
2. CB. Butler
2. WR. Britt

[Bro13ama]

honestly I only pay attention to top 10 picks really, I think free agent trades like the T.O trade and casell and everything is much more interesting.

And screw the 49ers they would be sooo good with a real quarterback, heres hoping they pick up vick

[Eleazar]

I think the draft is a little boring and they put it out there to much but I do pay attention to who the Steelers take.

I agree which is why I usually just have it on in the background and just look up to see how close they are to a Colts draft pick.

[sir woimz]

My team rarely benefits from the draft as they tend to give away their picks, but I imagine that is different this year as they made it to the Playoffs this past year.

Yes, I'm a Dolphins fan.

Don't give up hope.

[Magnum]

Holy Crap a fellow Dolphins fan. Never thought I'd see one outside of Florida.

[Maawdawg]

Holy Crap a fellow Dolphins fan. Never thought I'd see one outside of Florida.

They were there, they just didn't admit it after the year they had previously :D

Quite a turnaround for them last year and I don't think it was an abberation either.

[Magnum]

Oh I've been an admitted fan of theirs since I was old enough to remember. I have my brother to thank for that. I've been with them through thick and thin.

Last year did sort of catch me by surprise. Since I live in up here in PA, I don't get to see all the Dolphins games so I usually catch the highlights the next day. It took someone at the bar one night to tell me they made it to the Playoffs just the day before till I realized what a good season it really was.

I guarantee I'll be watching as many of their games as I can this year.

[sir woimz]

I’ve been a Dolfan all my life, along with the Canes, Heat. What can I say born and raised in SoFLA. I know what you mean Mag. I didn't expect them to have that kind of season they did. Hopefully they can build form last season, start giving Henne a chance to start. We all know Pennington always has a terrible year after a good one.

[BasicBreakdown]

Well I definitely watch the draft to see who my team takes. And my team is the Texans. You heard right. THE TEXANS..... You can imagine my frustration. At least Mario Williams is shutting up all the naysayers. Hopefully we can bolster our defense with another playmaker this year. We sure as hell need one.

[Maawdawg]

I will probably be less dedicated to the draft now that the Bears don't pick until the 49th overall pick since their trade. More time for video games I guess. :D

[Maawdawg]

So, how did everyone's teams do on the first day? The Bears traded away their only pick yesterday so I didn't have much to watch. Now they have 9 picks today though.

[Warblade]

Like i said in the NHL thread, I live in Pitt. We're gonna kick a** no matter who we have (not true but we are still amazing)

[Maawdawg]

Well, the Bears got the guy I have been watching for a while and hoping they would grab at some point. Freak athlete D-Lineman Jarron Gilbert.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAqc85MT_-0
squats 635, deadlifts 665

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXDSPbZ_OUw
insane jump out of a pool

[Warblade]

oh yeah, he is pretty good